zoom_zip

zoom_zip wrote

they don’t bend the knee to the southerners but they still have a king, right? their whole thing was just “we don’t accept your king, we decide our own king” or something.

anyway, i know exactly the response you’d get if you tried this. “it’s just fiction. it’s not real.” but give it a go anyway because who knows, right?

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zoom_zip wrote

my father grew up on a farm with half a dozen cows. the cows were named after the children. they were all milked by hand, the milk shared with the calves. my father would sing to them while he milked them. when the cows were aging (my father said you could spot it because 'their hind legs started to go') they'd be killed for meat, leather etc. the day a cow was killed was a day of mourning on the farm.

you are literally the “i only buy my meat from my uncle’s local humane farm where he sings to the animals and gives them sweet kisses while he tucks them into bed” meme.

meanwhile more than 70% of all meat worldwide is from factory farms

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zoom_zip wrote

so

you want as much liberty for yourself as you can get, but you're fine with taking it from others, exploiting others, or doing whatever in order to get it?

like, maybe i'm not getting it, but the way you are describing yourself, you are just describing like 90% of the world population. "i just want to get as much good for myself, and fuck whatever gets trampled behind me along the way"

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zoom_zip wrote

When u manage almost 200 slaves, commit acts of ecocide, kill fuck tons of non farm animals and do massive pollution majority of your time in the day and can literally do anything fucking else but u choose to act like a comical enemy of anarchist and have the resources and ability to do otherwise ur not an anarchist

so why do you do it? money? nobody does anything for no reason.

if u wanna reason why tbh, I have no fucking clue why I do this shit. Maybe I'm just so jaded, amoral, and low on ability to give a fuck and will to fight that its an perfect combo for me to do this shit. Maybe I'm secretly to even myself that I"m so desperate for people to support me, a way to feel needed, not alone, resources to have some more autonomy in life and a sense for adventure combined with security that getting back into the slavery game with racists and misogynists is no real problem to me and I don't really wanna get out. tho lets be fucking honest, the reason is irrelevant and I"m not going to try and excuse myself bc the reality is I'm the archy and its ok bc its my archy. You either do what u can or u don't and I wont so thats reality.

this just sounds so confused. you don’t just one day wake up and start taking actions that are inconsistent with your beliefs, but sometimes people get trapped in patterns that are inconsistent with their beliefs for reasons outside of their understanding. it seems like you can recognise that you are in a fucked up position, doing fucked up things by choice; you can see them as fucked up things, but you don’t want to change for some reason and can’t figure out why that is. and don’t want to figure out why, because it’s easier to throw your hands up and shrug and say “oh well, guess i am just slime”.

My ideas in my head havn't changed but my actions sure have

this is dissonance. if your actions don’t align with your ideas, then change your actions. if you’re holding onto the actions that don’t align with your ideas then either the ideas aren’t as important to you as you maybe think, or there’s something else pulling you to act in whatever way.

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zoom_zip wrote

i feel so much pain for every parent living with a feeling of guilt over this. feeling like it was their fault or that they did something wrong. feeling like it could have been prevented if they had just done something different.

i don’t know how, but i hope this is confirmed and becomes widespread enough knowledge that some of those people can let go of that feeling.

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zoom_zip wrote

All i'm saying is that the answer to this lies in the fact that accessibility to veganism isn't as clean and easy as folks in this thread are arguing and if we actually care about engaging with the root goal of all of us - having more vegan diets in the world - we need to stop yelling at redditors and labeling them weak and ideologically inconsistent, and start thinking about the actual barriers that exist.

okay i’m gonna use this as a moment for personal reflection if that’s okay. i think i could take a position to keep arguing against your stance, but you’ve probably heard it before. and i do think—in some cases—you’re right about accessibility, or even motivation.

however, for me—in the same way you expressed exhaustion elsewhere in this thread for the unrelenting attack from vegans (me included) in online anarchist spaces—i think i’ve reached a point of exhaustion with trying to discuss these nuances with meat eaters, because—anecdotally—they never apply to them. if it was a case that accessibility was a genuine issue for someone, i would like to work to help them, but usually it’s just another excuse that they want to pile onto the list of excuses to cover up the fact that actually they just don’t care. and they’re not receptive to any discussion, it’s just an attempt to silence the critique against meat.

the reason i approach these conversations from a position of such hostility is because to me my veganism and anarchy are the same thing. they are an attack against hierarchy/dominion/the status quo/the engine of civilisation/etc.

as far as i’m concerned meat eaters are actively:

  • acting violence on an oppressed people
  • defending status quo power
  • financing ag industry
  • policing: incarcerating and enslaving
  • violating the autonomy of others en masse

and more.

i don’t have reasoned discussions with cops, racists, transphobes, or anyone else who acts in this way, but for 15 years i’ve tried to engage meat eaters in discourse rather than attack. and i can’t reconcile in my mind now why i’ve done that. why have i kept the kid gloves on for meat eaters for all these years? because of these nuances and exceptions to the rule that usually don’t apply in the bad faith discussions i end up in?

before they deleted their account the person who was in this thread left a comment reply to me saying “you win” after i attacked their stance. i don’t feel like i win anything in these conversations. i only feel like 70 billion enslaved, tortured and slaughtered animals each year lose.

i’ve lost interest in taking any stance other than constant and unwavering hostility against meat eaters. because i’m tired. i’ve heard it all before. i’ve discussed all the nuances and i’ve engaged all of the exceptions, and i’ve talked and talked and talked and nothing changes. i just see people go round in circles and it took me 15 years to realise that these nuances are being used as a weapon to try and shut down the conversation.

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zoom_zip wrote

i will not stand for oppression! unless it is the oppression of someone who i consider lesser than me. that kind of oppression is fine. it’s just other kinds of oppression that i will not stand for!

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zoom_zip wrote

autonomy for everyone! except for the seventy billion animals who are purpose-bred as commodity to be owned, traded, and violated for the profit of farmers. not them. but everyone else!

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zoom_zip wrote

all cops are bastards! except the ones who incarcerate animals in pens and paddocks until they’ve grown the bare minimum amount of meat on their bones so we can cut it off for burgers! not those cops. just the other cops!

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zoom_zip wrote

  1. time - being vegan just objectively requires more time cooking.

please explain how

  1. cultural background - meat is important to many cultures, celebrations, etc.

is this an acceptable excuse for any other shitty behaviour? forced marriage? female genital mutilation? are those okay because they’re cultural?

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