rmblock

2

rmblock wrote

This is still a hypothetical utopia though, correct? One where group identities have dissolved and there is no such thing as a mob mentality, no scarcity of resources... Right? I agree with you in spirit but I'd just like to clarify what you mean by 'in an anarchist society.' Many other leftists don't have the luxury of pointing to an ideal that has never existed at scale for an extended period in modern history.

For example, were I to say 'well, the state gradually withers away in a communist society' I'd be laughed away because we have examples to point to and no concrete case of that happening, even if it is the ideal we are striving towards.

(Not trying to troll, this is a genuine question/clarification coming from a libertarian socialist.)

5

rmblock wrote

No, it is extremely far-fetched to think. Whatever your brand of left/anti-capitalism, it hurts us as a whole when we dwell on this (now 16+ years later).

Forget the literally thousands of people who would need to be involved; We know from the history of the USA and empire as a whole that people can be marched into war without pulling off wild capers like this.

Furthermore, consider:

  • The long debates over the past nearly two decades about the Iraqi Baath party's connection to al-quaeda - If someone were just planning a false flag with the goal of occupying Iraq, why not pin it on a group that could be directly associated with them?
  • The many ways that a smaller, more secret group could have pulled off an equally devastating attack without needing to involve air traffic controllers and building demolition crews.
  • There are thousands and thousands upon thousands of architects and engineers in the world, very few of whom have real-world experience with controlled skyscraper demolitions or the affects of airplanes crashing into buildings. So honestly I take their expertise with a grain of salt.

The fact is that our world is all messed up, and sometimes horrible things happen as a result. Indulging in this kind of conspiracy thinking does nothing to fix what has already gone wrong in its wake, or acknowledge the real frustrations with US foreign policy that lead to support for things like this in the first place. It doesn't even explain away our failure to stop the ensuing global war on terror. It's a distraction, and responsible people on the left should drop it completely.

I also find super racist the often-repeated argument that the group planning the attack were backwards 'cavemen'- These were people dedicating their lives to war with the most powerful military state in history, with the support of powerful people and at least some measure of popular support, but of course a handful of crusty old CEOs and dynastic politicians were able to slip one of the most horrific terrorist attacks in human history under all our noses.