marcus66502

marcus66502 wrote

If you actually read my post and if you know what opinion means, then you'd know I wasn't stating opinions, but since opinions aren't off limits here's one:

You're not going anywhere in life if you don't let go of bullshit values. They just keep you deluded and from moving ahead.

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marcus66502 wrote

You do know that moralizing is against the rules here, right?

What you're saying sounds like a lot of moralizing: preaching who it is and who it's not moral to steal from. Your personal values are of no interest to anyone here, so keep them to yourself. It is funny as hell, though, that morals are discussed in a forum of shoplifters.

Since, we're on the subject of what's moral, can you tell me what's moral in the society you live in? The fact that you have to resort to shoplifting to achieve the economic goal of acquiring wealth?

You're good for entertainment though, if nothing else. I'll grant you that!

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marcus66502 wrote (edited )

OP just wants to vent and get advice on using social media to slander someone he's got a beef with -- not exactly a high crime on any jurisdiction's criminal code, but that's not the point.

I was trying to say that there's too many of these "how do i ruin someone's life" posts in here, irrelevant to the main focus of this forum: shoplifting. They're the reason this forum isn't active anymore.

To the OP again, you should be careful about conspiring to "ruin" someone's life (whatever that means these days). You might end up ruining yours. I may be limited in experience but I do know that, by and large, people aren't just going to let you hurt them. They're going to hit you back.

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marcus66502 wrote

Dumb question: I thought this was supposed to be a forum about shoplifting. When did it become about anything and everything?

OP, I have news for you: just because you got a keyboard in front of you doesn't mean every topic is fair game in EVERY FORUM. I'd very much like to discuss complex function theory. You wanna talk about that??

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marcus66502 wrote

You sound like you have never had to dispute a fraudulent charge on your credit card before.

Please explain how I sound like that because truth be told I've had to dispute worse than just a fraudulent charge on MY credit card. I've had to dispute a fraudulent credit card opened in my name by someone else. And all it took was calling the credit card company and filing a fraud report.

People check credit reports regularly and they find items that don't belong to them all the time. To say that it's a pain in the ass to correct your report is false by any standard, unless you make it a pain in the ass on yourself by losing sleep on it.

I am clearly not wrong but somehow I sense your response had nothing to do with who's right and wrong here, and more to do with you leaving the last word in, to satisfy your ego. You can have the last word, the one that I won't be reading.

-Cheers.

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Reply to comment by marcus66502 in Thoughts on M@rsh@lls? by ladiablita

marcus66502 wrote (edited )

I'm not worried about LP, as i'm pretty good about spotting them. My problem is that in my area EVERY CLOTHING ITEM is tagged. I like their brand name men's basics, but (assuming I can find my size, not an easy task) they magnet-tag everything THROUGH the box or package, so there's no way to get them without studying up on magnets, and investing in removers.

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marcus66502 wrote

You're not moralizing, you're just showing how little thought you give to what you say.

First of all, you don't know who the card belongs to. It could belong to a wealthy CEO who made his dough by stealing working class wages.

Second, even if the card originally belonged to a working class person, that person has zero liability for fraudulent transactions. In layman's terms, the card holder won't be responsible for the transaction and won't have to pay for it if he reports the card stolen in a timely manner. So you're still sticking it to the corporations, not the working class. Happy??

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Reply to comment by marcus66502 in Another Caught Story by Tr18294937

marcus66502 wrote

Gotcha! That makes sense.

At the same time, the fact that they gave you diversion doesn't mean they HAD TO. So be careful what you admit to them when they stop you. All they knew was that something might not have scanned. It doesn't sound like they had solid evidence before the stop. Without an admission of guilt, you or your lawyer could've successfully argued an honest mistake at trial. That's not an option if you admit guilt before trial.

The proper way to do this is to just pretend to scan ONE item per trip (no more). They won't know a fake attempt from an honest one, so they can't accuse you (and the cops won't charge you with) shoplifting. I've seen incidents where people have talked themselves out of stops by simply saying "I don't know why it didn't scan, I'm not a f*cking cashier. If you want me to do the cashier's job, you can expect errors."

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marcus66502 wrote

Can you provide more detail? You said you were lifting through self check-out. So, in that case, what evidence did they have on you when they stopped you? Were you just not scanning items, or were you making fake attempts at scanning them? If you just weren't scanning, then they've got you because they have intent to steal. You can't claim you just forgot to scan (courts have held that forgetting is not a defense to lifting).

But if all they have is you attempting to scan something and it didn't ring up, then they can't formally accuse you of lifting cause they can't establish intent. They can still stop you but all they can do is point out that the item didn't scan and give you the options of paying for it or passing on it.

If they asked you to go with them, then then it's safe to assume they actually accused you of lifting. What did they have on you exactly?? What did they say to you?

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marcus66502 wrote

You don't need a rental car, just fake plates. In addition, I'd recommend NOT parking at the store's lot but somewhere else off-premises. The farther away you run, the less motivation they have to run after you -- especially if they got their merchandise back. They get paid to recover merchandise, not to play cop.

If, on the extreme, you meet the psycho who's just after your ass and will chase you even off premises, then you have no choice but to deal with them as assaulters. Off premises you're acting in self-defense.

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marcus66502 wrote

I spent some time researching this and all I found was news articles from sensational media from the time this was first being rolled out a few years ago. A lot of general talk but no details as to how they detect the second scenario. Only one article mentioned that Stoplift is able to detect fake scanning while covering barcode, but they don't say where they get that info from. I already checked the Stoplift website and there was nothing about THAT, just a lot of advertising hype and buzz words from the inventor, who's clearly trying to sell this to retailers. Needless to say, he provides no details either.

All I could find with certainty is the following:

While stoplift is used for both cashier lanes AND self checkouts, it's mostly used to monitor cashier behavior (a lot of cashiers can thank stoplift for losing their jobs).

As far it's used in monitoring self checkouts, it relies on overhead cameras to detect items left in cart unscanned, items passed around the scanner, and items passed over the scanner but not ringing up. I didn't read anywhere that this last scenario leads to a freeze of the screen (needing an attendant to unlock it), but I did read that every transaction has its own video footage recorded and if something like this is detected, the transaction may be flagged for LP to review manually.

Whether LP will review the transaction video is hard to say but a couple of things are obvious: (1) there's nothing they can do about the transaction after the fact, and (2) all they can do is profile you and keep an eye out for your next visit, and that's only if they've seen other videos of you doing the same thing. Otherwise, it's just an everyday error and that's the end of it.

So basically, the key to doing the second scenario effectively for a long time is to avoid creating a pattern. Spread out to various stores, change appearance/clothing (putting a pillow under your coat to look fatter wouldn't be a bad idea), vary your debit cards, etc. etc. You folks get the idea.

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marcus66502 wrote

When you say "skip scanning" do you mean simply not making an effort to scan something (i.e. leave it in the cart) or faking an attempt to scan it by running it over the scanner but covering the barcode? They're obviously different things.

The first would be easy to detect even without AI if you just drop the unscanned item in the bagging area and they have scales . Not all stores in my area have scales, and even those that do I've found only work some of the time. It seems like they've been switched off, my guess being because they lead to too many false alarms, overwhelming staff and frustrating customers. Or they could've just broken and the stores find it's too much trouble and cost to be worth fixing.

The second scenario, however, where u make a bogus attempt to scan, that's a completely different story. I'd be very interested in knowing how they detect THAT, using AI. You're still safe in the sense that, even if you're caught this way, they can't accuse you of lifting , but it's worth knowing just so you can spread your trials among various stores to avoid creating a recognizable pattern.

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Reply to comment by marcus66502 in What to boost by Squeakybreaks

marcus66502 wrote (edited )

There's policy and then there's what happens in practice.

Policy may say they're not supposed to touch you or tackle, but in practice it ends up happening anyway, mostly because LP knows how to put in motion a chain of events that leads up to a justification for it.

One LP alone will not tackle you on their own. Most have enough sense not to, as it's tough to do without back up and any tools of law enforcement (pepper spray, gun, etc.). In the years I've worked in retail, I've seen a single LP approach a suspect at the exit, touch them on the shoulder, but backed off immediately as soon as suspect pushed back. They never followed beyond premises.

On the other hand, two or more LP's stopping you, that's serious business. That doesn't happen unless they mean to tackle you. They don't count on getting your cooperation, so what they'll do is block your exit and force you into having to shove them aside to clear your exit. That's what gives them the cover excuse to tackle you: You touched them first.

If this happens don't take the bait. It's two or more against one: not good odds even for a big guy. Rather, walk back inside, ask to speak to a manager and tell them that you're being illegally detained by goons who haven't actually accused you of anything yet. Tell them that without a charge, you don't have to go anywhere with anyone. These are your best tools against them when they're about to call the cops on you (or have already done so).

Alternatively, if they block your exit, you can go back into the store and pretend to shop some more. And while LP will think they've got you canned until the cops arrive, get close to an emergency exit and just walk out through that door. You can just push the door open. An emergency alarm will sound but you'll be gone, so what do you care?

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Reply to Caught. by Jellybean1

marcus66502 wrote

For what it's worth at this point, you should not be lifting if you can't outrun LP or you're not prepared to fight them when they touch you.

I bet the reason he ran after you is that he saw you're disabled and figured he could muscle you. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO: they feel you out and take a chance on you; betting on you being weak and not knowing your options. I've seen a few cases of LP running after someone, and in all of them as soon as LP laid a hand on the guy and the guy pushed back, LP backed off immediately. I don't know any LP that wants to get into a one-on-one fight without backup.

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Reply to comment by marcus66502 in by !deleted24866

marcus66502 wrote

Good idea. You'd be surprised how much you can hide in large but cheap items as you go through self check out. I don't want to give too many specific details in here but brainstorm and you will get creative.

The other thing with self check out is that you don't have to move the large items from the cart. Just make sure the barcode is facing up and use the hand-held scanning gun to pretend to scan the item. They don't have a way of telling whether it was genuine scanning failure or intentional. Without proof of intent, there's no shoplifting charge. Worst than can happen is they can give you the option to pay for the item or pass on it.

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Reply to comment by marcus66502 in by !deleted24866

marcus66502 wrote (edited )

My first large haul from a grocery store was done by simply taking reusable bags off the shelves, filling them up, and leaving.

You see, in my area that just doesn't work. They have greeters and many times security guards asking for receipts from anyone who's walking out with merchandise that's not bagged in WalMart store plastic bags. This by the way happens a lot, people bringing their own bags or choosing not to have items bagged because stores here charge 5 cents for plastic bags. Similarly, anyone with a backpack is tailed. The LP stops that I saw while working at WMart involved people walking out with backpacks or their own reusable bags.

Alternatively, you can get a plastic bag from the self-checkout area and fill that up and walkout.

This works, but again, if you do it enough times some employee will eventually notice and flag the event, which will lead to LP going through camera footage next day. You got away, but you've been made, and they'll know to look out for you on your next visit. If you're going to do this, make sure you don't come back to this store for a while and if you have to come back change your appearance to throw them off. You don't get to find out if you've been made until you're stopped (how's that for a golden rule?)

Nobody will question you if you just act like you belong,

What does that even mean any more? I got caught walking out with just one item, after going in and going out in less than 30 seconds. Plain clothes LP just happened to be watching at the right place at the right time.

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Reply to comment by marcus66502 in by !deleted24745

marcus66502 wrote

One word of caution: This game is not so much about confidence as about erasing your tracks and leaving them in the dark. Take that from someone who's worked in retail for years. Let me explain what I mean.

You most likely won't be caught the first time or from a single event. The chances of LP just randomly happening to watch you from start to exit are pretty slim unless you go in there with red flags: backpack, shady outfit, or just give employees the creeps where they rat you out to LP to start trailing you. If you look normal, that won't happen.

The real screw up is leaving tracks so they can make you later when they watch video back footage, and they do this for what's known as "flagged events". These can be anything the store managers notice, such as finding open packaging in shelves (so make sure you don't leave that around), or an item's on-hands scan doesn't match what's physically on the shelf (although this is very rarely flagged unless A LOT of them are missing so make sure you only take no more than one or two items at a time). This is how you "fly under the radar".

Another crucial part of erasing tracks is to vary the stores so as not to create a pattern. The same item missing the first week of every month from the same store will be eventually be noticed by department managers who stock the merchandise on shelves. You will not be caught the first few times but you will be made, and THAT my friend is how they know to wait for you and to trail you inconspicuously while you're thinking you can pull something off with confidence.

Confidence won't get you very far if you plan on doing this for a long time. Doing the hard work will. Aside from the above this work includes changing appearance with the seasons (wool caps in the winter, baseball caps in the spring/summer), and in general just randomly vary your habits. You will leave them in the dark.

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marcus66502 wrote

I've worked in retail and I can tell you with absolute certainty that when a salesfloor associate comes up to you and asks if you need help, you're definitely being watched. They're NOT customer servicing you out of the kindness of their heart. That just NEVER happens. They don't even want to be bothered when a customer approaches them for help, never mind actively tending to a customer. They have way too much to do to make time for that and in any case, who wants to deal with people more than they have to?

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marcus66502 wrote

Some managers and employees care waaaaay too much about the merchandise and will go so far as to put themselves in harm's way

It just never ceases to blow my mind how brainwashed some people are. Managers and other retail employees put themselves in harm's way for what?? The merchandise is ensured and in any case shrink is taken into account annually and the prices are adjusted accordingly.

But if these poor buggers got hurt in harm's way, would the corporation care? The only thing that would go through the minds of the CEO's would be the dollar amount it would cost to "neutralize" the whole event (i.e. make it go away, as in cease to be covered by the press and generate bad publicity).

Every time I go to a store and walk past the registers where these poor souls work for minimum wage it brings me back to the days when I used to work in retail -- the worst field to work in. At the time I was just glad to have a full-time job even if it didn't pay a lot; seems almost funny now that I earn twice as much.

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marcus66502 wrote

This article is vague and, like most news articles out there, it sounds like a lot of soundbyte meant to generate ratings and fill up space.

It talks about detecting items that move past the scanner without being scanned. In all due respect, they don't need AI technology for that. Anybody watching cameras or the floor can spot missed scans. The real problem is determining whether it was an honest missed scan or an intentional miss. This is key because intention is an essential element of shoplifting. You can't prove shoplifting if you can't prove intent to deprive the owner of merchandise.

I can't see how any AI system can detect intention, as long as a customer pretends to scan an item. Customers are always in a hurry and will try to scan items fast, then pay the quoted total without caring to look at the itemized list until they get home. The article does not, for example, address the cases where bagging is skipped, or where heavy items are scanned with a handheld gun without moving them; these items don't go through the scanner, so the AI system is useless.

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marcus66502 wrote

Small things add up over the years. A pack of cream cheese here, bottle of shampoo there, and let's just say I've almost never paid for small groceries or hygiene items. It was one small load of concrete dumping at a time that allowed Andy Dufresne to dig his way out of a lifetime prison sentence in The Shawshank Redemption.

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marcus66502 wrote

I don't know how true this is but I read in another forum a while ago that LP stops watching you when you approach the cash registers and line up to pay (whether they were referring to LP on the floor or LP watching cameras in the office I don't know).

I personally find that it's quite safe to conceal while waiting in line at checkout lanes. If the item is small enough to palm, you can casually slip it in your coat pocket while feigning boredom or pretending to get out your wallet. Your shield is the bodies of other customers in line, obviously after you make sure they're not watching you.

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marcus66502 wrote (edited )

You do understand that, judging by the stories told here, most posters in this forum have no regular job, right? It's not like they have to go to work 40+ hours a week. In that case, it wouldn't be worth the trouble, but if you have nothing to do all day except hang around with other similar folks, ….

Google the youtube videos in the "Boosting for Billions" series. Many of these boosters work in teams, lift in huge amounts, and likewise sell in large quantities, so yea it becomes worth it when you do it in large-scale operations. I was shocked to see the wide networks developed by organized boosters. Lifted products were sold in bulk through underground networks that would take more than a single person to develop. There's no way to pull that off if you work alone and don't know people or can't network.

Besides, I have to partially disagree with your claim that the price is low for drug store stuff. High end drug stores are definitely not cheap, especially for brand name stuff, and if you have no regular income your only way to get what you want is to lift it or buy it from a booster.

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