flingwingin

flingwingin wrote

Where life is far more blended than the Marxist ideology of one specific category

hey did you read my long bullshit about class interest and subjectivity or w/e?

tldr; our society today is kept afloat because of increased class mobility (in a subjective sense), rather than the marxist myth that "there's no such thing as class mobility and ambiguity, and the ambiguity should be abstracted away". The important divide is the divide between a theory of being which includes class divide, and a theory of being which undoes that class divide (which is kept alive in marxist thought and is what preserves the failed political framework of leftist movements where they try to gain essentially class mobility, rather than smashing the system - or they think they're smashing it but fail).

but idk marxoids would call this idealist and unmaterialistic ig even though its based more on reality today than some idea of "the owners and the non-owners" as if this isnt more useless and ambiguous of an idea than ever, as ownership is hugely varied

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flingwingin wrote

Hey, I always respect your fire and anticapitalist sensibilities in conversations, but it doesnt really help anything to just come in a thread to shit on someone's existence. Like attention seeking for the sake of validation while also admitting to being shitty is one of the biggest things that pisses me off so I get it, but I also know that I've been like that some time in the past, I think it's a thing most people go through - just harder/bigger when they have more privilege or sense of self to preserve. But it's a thing to get through, not a thing to be crucified for imo.

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flingwingin wrote

Sorry for going off on you before. I don't think your a bad person, I just think you got problems with priorities if youre against sabotage (aka people without property making it their own in only way they can) but can rationalize people owning property (participating and upholding systems of domination and exclusion from the necessities of life). I'm not trying to bring that back up though so i won't argue it, but I just wanna say that you're not my enemy and it's better to have more people making an effort at least.

On this post - I think there's something really insidious in this way of thinking. Like when you know something is bad, but just make a performance about how it's bad and then say "but, nothing can be done :(". It's literally the shit that the ruling classes have done since forever (a good book to read on these dynamics is Domination and the Arts of Resistance by James C Scott). It's a way to both seem like you're taking responsibility, and totally refuse responsibility out of cynical defeatism. I get what you mean about how people rationalize their own place, and I agree that it's very important to accept the reality of the consequences of your actions and how they fit into your worldview and not offload responsibility and guilt from yourself while piling it on others - but I also think that we should be trying to not just assume the guilt and responsibility, but then strive actively for redemption through our actions. Which it looks like you do, so kudos. But thing I just wanna say is how dangerous of an idea it is to just be okay living with the bad, while acknowledging it. This is EXACTLY how ideology functions today, and its EXACTLY what the worst people all the way up say to themselves to justify their shit. I think there is such thing as redemption and living "in the light" morally speaking, but it comes as a process of striving for that redemption, rather than a state of being. It comes from the struggle. It doesnt matter what your material position is, so long as you can really, genuinely tell yourself that you're doing all you can to live up to your values, rather than falling into the traps of fear and comfort for example.

Also there's a very strong relationship that i've seen between people with huge egos and people who are very hard on themselves. I dont really know exactly why but it might have something to do with both cases there existing a strong sense of self either way, or maybe the egotism is a way to shield from the valid self-criticism, or maybe the self-criticism stems from an egotistic sense of "i ought to be better" - idk. But anyways there seems to be this thing where people are able to overlook their own huge narcissism by staining it with (proportionately to their egotism) overblown criticism and demoralization. Being chill and genuinely happy with yourself is the real antidote. It makes me sad to see people who are on some self-hating shit and cope with exaggerated egotism. Like just love yourself, focus less on static being/identity and more on effective action for itself and just let urself grow and live without having to second-guess all the time.

also drugs are cope and literally the devil

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flingwingin OP wrote

🍃
To sum up, the real difference relevant to the interests of social change is not class division, but the division between class division and the universal subjectivity of the oppressed. (And this last phrase, "universal subjectivity of the oppressed" isn't to say that all who fit 1.b HAVE this subjectivity, it's that we find it by going through the contradiction that's created when a society turns its dichotomy of person-object onto people, turning some into masters and others into servants who carry out the will of another (even temporarily). Most people of either class believe in this dichotomy, which is why we get lost in politics of gaining privilege and being a master more of the time, aka being saddled with cognitive dissonance less often. It's universal in the sense that it really is able to apply to everyone, all the time.)
🍃

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flingwingin wrote

you know i thought it was funny when you asked if you were racist for wanting to punch a black woman and steal her house, cause i thought "ofc not, its not cause she's black, it's cause ur frustrated and probably kinda entitled" but i mean if ur just gonna go ahead and identify with oppressors and the people who have deprived everyone of land, im gonna go ahead and say yeah ur probably kind of shitty

i know about your relationship to money in the context of you trying to use it for a good cause, but wtf is up with you both wanting to steal from historically oppressed people and also being against other people taking property as their own. Like wtf lol. Paints a more complete picture. I hope the scary people of the scary neighborhood ur gentrifying burn down your ego project.

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flingwingin wrote

Reply to by !deleted35896

fuck mandates, they just further social control

fuck soft power social pressure shit too, like the hysteria over masks on both sides wtff (and i say "both sides" cause anti-maskers shot ppl over not wanting to wear a mask - the fucking entitlement - and the pro-mask people are just 100% doing what the experts/elites on tv tell them they should do (and how they should feel) and thats hella fucked too)

but people should just wear the fucking masks and stay home if theyre sick, and get the vaccine if they want to have less chance to get critically ill

(oh yeah, also fuck the corrupt shits in congress giving our money to businesses and landlords but shafting us by giving us back a fraction of the taxes we pay - and fuck the companies who "don't believe in covid" and shit and will make you come to work when you sick because it's become some political thing. Fuck the whole response tbh it was all around a failure (for the people) on every level. But don't forget that the richest people stole trillions from the lower class people over the pandemic. IT WORKED FOR THEM)

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flingwingin wrote

not garbear, but tbh i do think that if you come from this society and want to become a hermit, that's selfish. I wouldn't dream of trying to stop someone though, and i'd be happy one person at least got out, but i do think it's worthy of moral condemnation to run away and leave everyone else in the same shit situation. But yeah idk we don't have any duties to each other or to lift everyone up - especially not against their own ability and wishes - but it's still morally broke imo. Like fuck the hermit, have some solidarity, we're still fucked over in here. Not everyone has the privilege to be a hermit. Or if it's not a privilege thing, have some solidarity n help others get out of the system. Fuck hermits

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flingwingin wrote

your brain on westoid eastern mysticism

(ok sorry i was harsh and i'm just shitposting on you, but fr i think there's a certain reading of the materials which is besides the point of what they literally say - im not denying what you talk about exists in daoist tests - though also daoism is like a broad as fuck thing which has been around for a long time and gathered tons of weird shit - i'm just saying that 100% western leftists will draw out certain ideas from the texts that from what i can see are less than main points at best, or just bad interpretations of the meaning or context, and they almost always serve to further docility and social control)

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flingwingin wrote

i was tryna say theyre both bad, idk if that got across

like posties have this super radical critique and want to live as anarchs RIGHT NOW, but doing this will lead to consequences most can't handle (like smh good ol benzo renzo died in a shootout with cops), so they cope by saying "i'm doing what i want" but only doing the things they want which are in line with the dominant establishment's view of what's right - it's a life ruled by fear and at best it's just not radical at all (and i only bring this up because they seem to think they're enlightened egoist ubermenschen for doing what they want, when it's literally what the system is designed for).

also changing your environment is changing the world... unless you mean change which environment you're in, in which case fml why am i tryna give advice to a social ladder climbing leftist tryna just build more privilege fuck that, fuck the state, and fuck it's bribes. But i dont think thats what ur saying so idk. Like there's shit you can do which allows for you to change things and make shit better, but no one is asking you to be a whole social movement in one person and revolutionize the whole world and bring down all states. Tbh that's like almost always a strawman of revolutionary arguments that passive nihilists (aka BASIC LIBERAL SUBJECTs) bring up in order to justify having 0 solidarity and 0 compassion and just "focusing on myself"

anyways anyways im not trying to criticize you here, i just wanted to answer why posties say to live in the moment, and why it looks to you that living in the moment means being inactive - it's cause people coping with the facts of the state and a lack of nihilism

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flingwingin wrote

wtf r u talking about "i'm tryna kill your enjoyment", all im saying is the self-flagelating and judging others questions r like FAM

it's not that you shouldnt be worried about what people think or trying to make them happier, it's that like your whole mindset and framework is these wokoid terms that dont really address like specific people being hurt, it's all posturing and thats all im trying to say

my original comment wasnt even that serious like jeez

ur best interpretation is that i'm being super serious and trying to destroy your fun and i'm a dick - by telling you to take it easy and not worry about all these categories to be judgy about?

self crit all im sayin smh

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flingwingin wrote

this is silly

you can think about doing something tomorrow, then go do it

planning is a part of being human, and its fun and imagination is cool

fuck westoid eastern mysticism like fucking 99% of the time it's just covert brainwashing tactics to make you docile and uncritical

real daoism is dialectical anyways, fuck this basic one dimensional shit. action and thought yo. they go together and help each other out, but are separated temporally

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flingwingin wrote

duuuude hey i get you

  1. lettuce has the way

  2. there are two kinds of living in the present that emerge, but post-left people bring up living in the present without really distinguishing - one is living anarchy now, acting on every desire RIGHT NOW with total nihilism, embrace the void, be ready to die by cop or go to prison or whatever, but go out like harrison bergeron ig. The other is the response to this basically unattainable first type, and it's to just "be in the present" by refusing to plan for the future, always seeking immediate comfort, validation, good feels, etc. and aggressively call out anyone who is thinking about the future or trying to change the world at all. This second type is a horrible horrible brainwashed liberalism tbh. It's shit. It's the devil.

On the practical side, it's good to smell the roses every once in a while. Work out and/or have sex often to keep in touch with your body. Ask urself if you're observing the world, or just observing what is observing the world, and get yourself out of abstract contemplation and into observation and contemplation on your surroundings and moment. It's nice. But it shouldnt be an imposition and its definitely not the only way to live.

But you basically have the answer already - you want to not wait for the future, and you want to not be inactive and accept this society - ok, in this moment do what you can to work towards a better society. This probably means sitting and planning, then carrying out what u think up. Pretty simple ig. Don't get stuck in the need for immediate payoff - the future exists, you will be there (and you wont be some totally different person), and you will be grateful for your past efforts if you work for long-term goals.

glhf

i could say how i think you could help people, make world better, become more free, but idk if this is the place for it and its a process. TBH i think no one has the answers until they're able to reach out to you offline and entangle you in a network of anarchist mutual aid and counter-economy and stuff

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flingwingin wrote

dude so many of your posts are along these same lines, and its like fr kinda worrying

no one should be worrying this hard about "what is the line between normal thing, and problematic thing"

like first of all either they're two separate things, or if it's a spectrum then u gotta decide is it all kinda problematic, or is it fine? Anyways good luck with your ethical journeys

"when does lettuce's constant use of activist categories become cultural appropriation"

i made your next topic for you ;)

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flingwingin OP wrote

lol i get u

but fr its because ive just been thinking a lot, and idk the more i think the more it reminds me of bullshit ive heard others say hegel said, or like related concepts, and i just want that foundation ig. But tbh idk how to dive into heavy ass stuff again

gonna finish the bible first tho ;)

jesus was the original stirner

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flingwingin wrote

Life goes on. The scary idea is honestly, what happens when things don't collapse? Some will keep their heads above the water, the rich will get way way richer, and many will live lives that don't even meet their basic needs on paper, but they'll keep getting by somehow and it'll be shitty. This is basically what already happens, ya know. But the horrible part is it'll happen more and at a worse rate and to more people.

Honestly the worst part is that for most people, you can totally stay afloat, as long as you tie your fate to society's. Become a good enough bootlicker and you're generally still guaranteed life. It's a deal with the devil. Society is satanic. The only hope of moral rectitude is trying to fuck up it's flows, so that you don't have to become the beast just to survive. Shit's fucked but sadly, life does go on.

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