ewk

ewk OP wrote

It's interesting that even with the astonishingly massive sex scandals from "meditation worshipping" religions like Zazen, scandals that make the Catholic church look like a "well run organization", people are still so desperate to see meditation as an unqualified good.

Of course that's entirely ignoring Zen Masters' warnings over the last 1500 years as well...

Not to mention the ways Japanese Buddhists have abused meditation as a tool of war.

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ewk OP wrote

I love it that I say "please" in a post and I get vote brigaded.

How... non-harassy?

I go around social media to see who is lying about Zen and if anybody is suffering as a result of their own critical thinking fails... b/c compassion.

Raddle really needs me for some reason.

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ewk OP wrote

Yeah... that's fair.

b/c if you went to England and told everybody you were a football player and you were built like a linebacker?

They would all think you didn't know @#$# about football.

The "Zen" in the West is actually a hippie version of a Japanese religion called Dogenism.

Japanese Dogenism is all about prayer-meditation and mind pacification.

Read any book from the 1,000 year history of Zen in China, and it is immediately clear that Japanese church lied to you. www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/getstarted.

Or just commonly discussed Zen teachings: www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/famous_cases

A church lying? When you think about it... should not surprise you.

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ewk OP wrote

It's an entirely different culture than you have been led to believe:

Dongshan Questions to Death Powell trans.

When the Master was in Leh-t'an, he met Head Monk Ch'u, 59 who said, "How amazing, how amazing, the realm of the Buddha and the realm of the Path! 60 How unimaginable!"

Accordingly, the Master said, "I don't inquire about the realm of the Buddha or the realm of the Path; rather, what kind of person is he who talks thus about the realm of the Buddha and the realm of the Path?"

When, after a long time, Ch'u had not responded, the Master said, "Why don't you answer more quickly?"

Ch'u said, "Such aggressiveness will not do."

"You haven't even answered what you were asked, so how can you say that such aggressiveness will not do?" said the Master.

Ch'u did not respond. The Master said, "The Buddha and the Path are both nothing more than names. Why don't you quote some teaching?"

"What would a teaching say?" asked Ch'u.

"When you've gotten the meaning, forget the words," 61 said the Master.

"By still depending on teachings, you sicken your mind," said Ch'u.

"But how great is the sickness of the one who talks about the realm of the Buddha and the realm of the Path?" said the Master.

Again Ch'u did not reply. The next day he suddenly passed away. At that time the Master came to be known as "one who questions head monks to death."

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ewk OP wrote

No.

We don't know each other but don't let that stop you from making assumptions.

Being downvoted is how I know somebody is bothered by the reasonableness of something I said.

"Stop lung about facts for religion" is something that only upsets people when they're doing it.

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ewk OP wrote

It's really bizzare that you would say that... I don't go into forums about subjects I know nothing about and vote brigade... that's what "going all night" looks like.

Me standing up for myself to people who won't be held accountable isn't "going".

It's stopping.

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ewk OP wrote (edited )

Reply to comment by ziq in Huangbo: Zen fundamentalism by ewk

  1. You made a universal claim about me that you know you can't prove in order to discredit an argument I'm making about a specific religion being founded on racial and religious bigotry and the effects of hundreds of years of that bigotry. Yeah... I think you are probably on the bigot horse in that race. Ever practice Zazen or read a book about Zazen? Every enjoy meditation? Do tell.

  2. You claim "most people" but where are these most people? Why do these "most people that don't care" go out of their way to engage with me if they don't care?

  3. You know who says I'm toxic over and over? The bigots I'm standing up to. Like you, those bigots never bother to say what it is specifically I'm "toxic" to other than complaints that I'm not like them or you.

  4. You removed a word from my post because you didn't like the definition that word had for two or three decades, ignoring the hundreds of years the word had a different definition. Across cultures. When I clearly wasn't intending the meaning you insist on. When I pointed out that in the Zen tradition a Zen Master was lynched for using words differently that the authorities allowed, you metaphorically wet yourself with hyperbole.

  5. You vote brigade me, link me to a troll I blocked for harassment who insists that my experience isn't legit "because nobody cares about u", and then tell me it's all for "my own sake"?

rofl.

Yeah.

Becoming the thing you hate is a legit problem for you. Thanks for all the negative attention I "deserve" in your book... it's turning out to be the most important chapter, isn't it?

You know what isn't a way to build an inclusive society?

What you are doing.

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ewk OP wrote

Reply to comment by ziq in Huangbo: Zen fundamentalism by ewk

  1. You made a universal claim about me that you know you can't prove in order to discredit an argument I'm making about a specific religion being founded on racial and religious bigotry and the effects of hundreds of years of that bigotry. Yeah... I think you are probably on the bigot horse in that race.

  2. You claim "most people" but where are these most people? Why do these "most people that don't care" go out of their way to engage with me if they don't care?

  3. You know who says I'm toxic over and over? The bigots I'm standing up to. Like you, those bigots *never bother to say what it is that is "toxic" about me in any specific way other than complaints that I'm not like you.

  4. You removed a word from my post because you didn't like the definition that word had for two or three decades, ignoring the hundreds of years the word had a different definition. Across cultures. When I clearly wasn't intending the meaning you insist on. When I pointed out that in the Zen tradition a Zen Master was lynched for using words differently that the authorities allowed, you metaphorically wet yourself with hyperbole.

  5. You vote brigade me, link me to a troll I blocked for harassment who insists that my experience isn't legit "because nobody cares about u", and then tell me it's all for "my own sake"?

rofl.

Yeah.

Becoming the thing you hate is a legit problem for you. Thanks for all the negative attention I "deserve" in your book... it's turning out to be the most important chapter, isn't it?

You know what isn't a way to build an inclusive society?

What you are doing.

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