RadicalConstructivist

RadicalConstructivist wrote (edited )

I think it helps to acknowledge that your own position is just one perspective of many and not some "objective truth", that are not omniscient and don't have all the answers. In theory, I aim to talk/write to share ideas with people rather than telling others they are wrong and bad for thinking the way they do, though the latter can be tempting sometimes (especially when that has become the default mode of engaging with people online). It can help to be open to the possibility that you may have something to learn from other people's perspectives, even if you think they are mostly wrong. This helps prevent you from constructing an artificial hierarchy in your head in which you are right/good/superior and they are wrong/bad/inferior.

Basically, I prefer to aim for a cooperative approach (dialogue to share ideas for mutual benefit, that others can take what they need from) as opposed to a competitive approach (debate to defeat the "wrong" people in the marketplace of ideas so that your idea can dominate). Sadly, in this world, the former is not always possible.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote (edited )

Reply to by Archaplain

the impression I get from ideas professed by self described online egoists is... troubling.

They're not wrong there to be fair.

This post seems pretty harmless and I would hardly call it a rant. They're expressing their poor experience with some egoists while acknowledging that this may not be an accurate view. There are three separate occasions in which they draw attention to the fact they aren't sure if this is reflective of egoism as a whole. They seem to be open to changing their mind and the comments more than adequately clear up their misconceptions.

Overall I can't see this post as "cringe". This type of dialogue may be what we need more of, certainly more than shitting on people in the out-group for not understanding something you do.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

She never tried to hide or downplay the fact that she used to use alts to attack people, even while she was doing it. Her alts were always obviously her. Ziq just now downplayed what they did (see the threads I linked), which is why I brought this up. Ziq pretended to be multiple different people and manipulated meta votes.

I'm not a guy.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

Being an egoist does not preclude you from adopting any ideas you see fit as your own. It is more a question of whether you are using ideas, or if the ideas are using you (spooky).

Upholding a union of egoists as a fixed idea to adhere to is in itself kinda spooky and so asking "how would a union of egoists do x" doesn't make a lot of sense.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote (edited )

At least she didn't try to hide what she did.

Apparently, your alts were so funny that you had to step down as an admin for a year

and had to temporarily leave raddle.

It's clear that /u/ziq has no intention of letting raddle heal considering he does not want to take responsibility for the complete implications of his destructive behavior. He is victimizing himself and lying again to the community he has harassed, hurt, and manipulated, instead of accepting responsibility for it.

[...]

However, right now his denials, gaslighting, and preying on people's sympathies is toxic. Moreover, I don't believe he has stopped making alts since I have seen some very suspicious comments/accounts popping up.

what an oddly familiar sentiment. I would recommend putting the rocks down

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

Oh so she 'genuinely believes' i said i was an ancap, that i think antifa is an official organization and that anarchy is 'in my blood'? She genuinely believes I'm an american fascist walmart thief who pms slurs to ppl? Stfu you shitty enabler.

no. It'd help if you actually listened to what I'm saying. Most of this seems to be caused by some serious miscommunication.

She said I'm lettuceleafer and that lettuceleafer is an ancap. Don't bullshit me.

The claim was that you were putting on a different personality - ie pretending to be multiple people like you used to when raddle was new (eg u/chomskyist). This does not mean that you are literally everything they are. Saying "lettuceleafer sounds like an ancap but I think it's actually ziq behind it" (not an exact quote) is not the same as calling you an ancap. I don't believe you are lettuce, for what its worth.

She bragged to me about it several times. She's told you she's a 'channer'. Wtf do u think that means? You really are the worst. Completely lost in clouds' ego.

I see, I take it by "4chan troll" you actually mean that she trolls fascists on 4chan? In context it sounds a lot like you're accusing her of being a troll from 4chan, and those are 2 very different things.

There has never been any cult. Or witch hunt. Or most of the things you keep publicly accusing us of doing, while getting mad about us privately expressing we think you're doing things you're not doing.

Wtf r u even doing here

I'm trying to explain my point of view on how this ended up happening.

How the fuck do u stand to be this obtuse? Wtf wtf. Imagine inviting half of raddle to a chat room, then linking to everything i say and deliberately distorting it to demonize me, copjacketing, fashjacketing, ancapjacketing me repeatedly, saying you want me to die in a fire, get beat up so i learn social skills, call me numerous other ableist things, wilfully gender me while calling me a transphobe

Everything you were sent happened over the course of a day and a half, and as I said this at the time it was believed that you had banned clouds for no reason after accusing her of doing shit she wasn't doing. Suffice to say there was a lot of emotion going on, especially given this is a conflict with a former friend. The chat room was created years ago by a few then-raddlers and has very little to do with you or raddle, people just used to occasionally talk about it. Like they did then.

you know what, fuck this. Don't ever fucking talk to me again, im done with u

It does seem rather futile, it does not look like you will ever listen because of your own preconception. I probably won't bother anymore.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

Reply to I can't even by ziq

"u/Nestor_Makhno_1917"

The really wholesome, joyous life of the individual or group is not built up with the aid of power and programs that seek to enclose it within artificial constructs and written laws. No, it can only be constructed on a basis of individual freedom and its independent creative endeavor, making headway through phases of destruction and construction.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

I don't need alts to tell clouds and her basic sycophants what I think of them.

Clearly not, as I said I no longer think that you may have been doing it.

There's a big difference between lying and saying something that you genuinely believe.

There's also a big difference between a serious statement and something that was said out of anger or frustration. This is why I said they were out of context. The point was to vent to friends in private, not to maliciously defame you.

None of those examples are lies. Blood anarchist and "antifa is an official org" are just the way some things you had said were interpreted (and the former was also mostly a joke). notably here ("they live and breath it" suggests there is a unified they, though it does now seem that was not what you meant). The ancap comment was not directed at you (nor was the 4channer one btw). I believe "ziq is titan" was said out of frustration I think partly because you'd previously insinuated that the alts trying to impersonate her were actually all just her doing it to gain sympathy (note that this was said just after she thinks she's been permanently banned - at the time it looked you'd been talking shit about her until enough people believed you that you could ban her. It turned out the ban was temporary, and that this wasn't something you were doing deliberately).

the admitted 4chan troll,

This is the type of rhetorical spin I was talking about. She said she sometimes goes to 4chan. She did not "admit" to being a "4chan troll".

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

no, I'm talking about the bullshit you and random alts (I don't think they're you btw) kept pedaling publicly. We only talked about you in response to you saying such things publicly. For a time, I did believe the alts might have been you because of your history, and because the rhetoric and narrative was so similar. Even so, I do not believe it is much like what was said in that chat (which was in private), certainly didn't have the rhetorical spin or public display.

But, the reddit comment is incredibly similar to what you were saying publicly. The rhetoric is similar, in both cases the person talked about is accused of being some mastermind alt manipulator hellbent on making everyone worship them or whatever, and both narratives are loosely based in real events (eg you do both have a history of using alts) and yet are incredibly far removed from what has actually been happening recently.

The irony was too good to not point it out

Good point captain basic.

congrats on the new low

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

All of this seems more of a problem of defining yourself by labels than anything else. If you're gonna dump someone just because continuing to date them technically doesn't match a fixed idea of a label you've adopted then you may have a (spooky) problem with your relationship to labels in general, whether straight homosexual or whatever else.

It also seems fairly absurd to conclude that someone is transphobic based in speculation about what they might hypothetically do in some abstract scenario and seems very far removed from anyone's actual experiences of transphobia.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote (edited )

blessed comment

I just think acknowledging the impact of propaganda and the lack of real choice is important since, while they are still "enemies" as such, it helps prevent us from the line of thinking that they are an enemy that needs to be totally annihilated or subjugated.

Unlike what others were trying to insinuate I do not see myself as superior to a liberal for believing what I do, nor do I see myself as "the enlightened one". I just happened to be in circumstances that allowed me to think outside the neoliberal box, but I am well aware that all that has done is landed me in a bigger, or perhaps just a different box - one that was also created in the context of the neoliberal order.

I don't require people to think like me, but it would be nice if fewer people thought like neoliberals - or at the very least that more people were aware that this is what they are doing (and therefore of the existence of the box).

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RadicalConstructivist wrote (edited )

to provide a framework that can be a useful tool in interpreting the world and acting within it if adopted as ones own.

Just don't let it adopt you, lest it consume you. The most vulnerable to this are those that have convinced themselves they don't have one.

edit: 1 downvote = 1 ideology

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