GoodOldWorkingClass

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

The reasons for strong morals are more complex than sheer brainwashing by society, but I agree that those with strong morals are very hard to sway.

I often try to gage how people feel about a subject by bringing up "hypothetical situations" when talking to them. We almost always get into moral arguments over these at work. Strong morals are always there in one form or another, sometimes because of a need to believe in something as part of your identity, or because of a need to "belong" to the majority (it's a terrible thing to be lonely). I spend my work days with my coworkers, I have lunches with them, endless chats with them, but if they found out how much I lift they'd scurry away from me like cockroaches from light.

I find it hypocritical that the social "majority" that doesn't support lifting actually takes pleasure in watching bank robbery movies, and there's no shortage of those.

2

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

I think this might only be good for getting discounts in the future. Return policies are changing rapidly. With more and more stores moving to a no-receipt-no-return policy, it's soon going to be impossible to pull this off unless you save old receipts from previous purchases or start doing receipt "dumpster diving".

WMart Canada just moved to a no-receipt-no-return policy and it doesn't seem to be temporary or just due to Covid-19. They're also pretty absolute about it. No exceptions, period. They just point to the new policy, printed and posted on counters or walls.

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by jce in by Anarchyinthesheets

As someone who has worked at WMart, let me tell you that it doesn't matter what store you work at. Your paycheck comes from the same place, and to that place you as an employee are just a number on the payroll, a necessary expense which they try every day to eliminate. You're not lifting from "the store", the goods belong to the company, regardless of what store they're located at.

More to the point though, I think you missed the gist of my comment: which was that it doesn't matter where you work, a place that sells goods or a warehouse. You're having to ruin your beauty sleep, put steel shoes on in the morning and go to a place to toil away for hours on end. It's labor that ages you, it's the toil of your muscles, and all for for what? For next to minimum wage, in other words just to get by. Do you like just getting by?

The CEO's of the companies that we work for, have no trouble sleeping at night, knowing that they build riches on our backs. Riches that allow them to actually sleep and not have to get up and work for a living in the work-a-day world.

So, my friend, it looks like you're at a very crude stage in your moral value system. You have some major disillusionment coming up as you age. It only comes with age, unfortunately, (after you've had enough abusive experiences). It's hard to speed this up, but I'm trying to help with that: whatever it is you think you are as an employee, YOU'RE NOT, get that thought out of your head -- the sooner the better for you.

0

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by jce in by Anarchyinthesheets

You're having to get up in the morning and go to work for a meager living so some CEO can have a permanent vacation in unimaginable luxury, and yet you're hung up on a meaningless phrase like "never shit where you eat"

You're funny as hell!

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Not only are the stores NOT sophisticated enough to track you, but more importantly, the FBI doesn't give a sh!t about shoplifting. It's not even federal jurisdiction if it happens in just one store in one state. The FBI is busy setting up entrapment schemes to entice politicians to accept bribes or something similar. That's what gets promotions, raises, and perks in law enforcement in North America.

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

... Continued ...

That being said, the whole enterprise of returns isn't worth the effort IF you can manage to get your hands on a very good replica of a driver's licence (and by 'good' I mean one that's actually printed on the right kind of material -- PVC plastic -- and has good print resolution, possibly even a hologram, that makes it look genuine to a non-expert, i.e. to someone who's not a government employee).

If you have that kind of ID (in any name and date of birth) then you can simply nurse that as a (fictitious) identity. That means you can use this identity to apply for credit cards and loans (credit cards for sure, one at a time and it should get easier after the first one, as this "identity" builds good credit). Max out the cards through purchases and ATM cash advances, and you never have to pay them back. They're more than welcome to go after the "identity", which hopefully will not be in your real name.

Rinse and repeat, with another driver's licence in another name. This will make a river of money in due time. The hard part is securing a source for these ID's, a source that won't scam you and just take your money, that is.

As much as people swear by certain online providers of "novelty" ID, I have no reason to believe that they're anything other than scammers. The do promise something illegal in high demand, and they do want you pay first, right?

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

@GreenGiant: Wrong! There are NO nuances whatsoever to return fraud. Retail workers don't have any way of tracking people. I know because I've worked behind retail counters and I've processed tons of transactions of ALL kinds! So don't make it sound like you know what you're talking about.

There is nothing the slightest bit complicated about a return. It's all in the hands of the employee logged in to the sales terminal computer. They can do it with no questions asked or they ask for your ID. Of course, it doesn't mean you have to provide it, and it doesn't mean you have to walk away if you don't want to provide ID either.

At most retail places, the first request you'll hear when you say you want to return something is for your ID. It's just a smoke screen, mostly because they just don't want to do returns. If you push back and ask to see a manager, tell them you don't have ID, and that the sales terminal screen doesn't require ID to be input, and that you'll call the Corporate office, you'll be surprised at how they'll cave in and do the return, almost immediately.

... To be Continued.

2

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by ziq in by !deleted31906

Middle Class? I'm not even gonna ask what that means.

I do know that I, for one, need to sell my labor in order to survive. So that makes me Working Class alright!

2

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

Did you know you were being followed? If yes, then why would you go directly to your car and give away your license plates? The one and only time I got stopped in the parking lot I gave back the item and told the guy I wasn't coming with him, and walked away. He didn't chase me but I could hear him behind me, threatening to write down my license plates as soon as I got in my car. I said I wasn't getting into any car, and indeed I didn't, not right away. I left the parking lot on foot and walked a few blocks before coming back for my car, with my hat off this time and making sure he was gone, which he was. He had nothing on me!

As for her holding your car door, I'm pretty sure that's illegal and you could've told her that. They're also not supposed to make threats of calling the cops. It's about as legal as a collection agency threatening criminal charges if shoplifter doesn't pay the amount on the collection letter.

So you could've called her bluff and asked her to let go of your car door. Chances are she would've folded, with a flushed face. That being said, I'm not going to lie to you, although it's highly unlikely that she'd call the cops or the cops would pursue the matter, it's not unheard of. Out of the thousands of police departments in the US, there's always some bored cop with nothing to do during the day.

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

The employers you're describing would fall into the category of what I've called piss poor employers (usually small and/or family businesses). I've already said these are not the employers you want to lift from. I imagine they make up a good portion of employers out there, although I can't say for sure what percent.

More to the point though, what I said addresses the broader issue of ethics. Is it right to steal from an employer? A philosopher once said "Ain't nothing good or bad, except that thinking makes it so." That's one way of answering the question, even if the answer is crude.

You can spin the question on its head: Is it right that major company CEO's enjoy riches beyond anyone's dreams, while people work for minimum wage in these companies? Do you really think the guys enjoying vacations on yachts are concerned that poor people interrupt their sleep to go to work shifts and live in squalor? Hell no. My paycheck says they sleep very well at night.

Your problem is you have feelings of compassion, which I find quite bizarre given that you're a career lifter. It might help to keep in mind that the people you lift from have not one iota of thought for you. Seriously, the world will throw you under the bus faster than you can blink.

−2

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

Reply to comment by DeeGirl in Caught at Elk! by DeeGirl

They're supposed to have ONE person keep a continuous line of sight the whole time. That's the only way to eliminate the chance of a bad stop. But again, the only time they have to answer for not following that rule is when there's a bad stop, which almost never happens. They know they're right, so the chance they take is well worth the reward.

As for them forming a chain to block your exit, when you find yourself in that situation you want to mention to them clearly that unless they SAY they're doing a citizen's arrest, it's unlawful detention. Once you've said that, give them three seconds to say you're being arrested and if they don't you just shove them aside. I'm quite sure you'll be covered, if it ever goes to court.

2

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

I find it bizarre that someone who lifts regularly would ask how the community is affected.

That aside, to answer the OP's concern, unless you're working for a mom-and-pop shop or a small, piss poor employer, the answer is almost always a resounding YES!

If you're working for any decent size employer, chances are the owners of the company are living in luxury that the rest of us can only dream of (on the order of milk baths, first class flights, and private island vacations). Even if they weren't filthy rich, they're living in houses and neighborhoods that are out of reach for you, the employee. So are the cars they drive, the clothes and jewelry they wear etc. etc. I think you get the point.

But most importantly, the company owners don't have to put in labor time for their high quality living. Unless I'm enjoying the same luxuries they are, then I'm not getting compensated enough. Spin the wheel however you like, but unless they've got two asses instead of one, they're the same human being I am, so there's no inherent reason why they deserve their easy lifestyle any more than the rest of us.

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

Reply to Caught at Elk! by DeeGirl

What obvious signs did you overlook? It's almost impossible to tail someone who is vigilant and not be made eventually. What happens much more commonly is that LP will stop someone without having followed the proper five steps to apprehension, which they're supposed to, as per their rules of operation. They can do that because the rules are only meant to avoid the one bad stop out of a million stops. No one's gonna hold them to their rules whey they're right. 99.99% of the time they're right, and they know it.

That being said, you could've chosen to run. It's not assault if you wrestle yourself free from someone trying to grab you. And if you do decide to go with them voluntarily, remember, you don't have to admit to anything, no matter how obvious it is that you've lifted. In a way it's not even NECESSARY for you to say anything: if they already have a slam dunk case, the evidence will speak for itself. Otherwise, they're just fishing for information out of you and you should just seal your lips.

They have no authority to search you without your consent, you have to be under formal arrest for that (i'm 100% about this, don't care what anyone else says). Just say that you don't know why you're being held there and that you have nothing to say to them. This way, if you want to use a certain defense later on in court, you haven't closed the door to that by making admissions.

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by User_Eye7172 in Graffiti propaganda by User_Eye7172

It wasn't rhetoric, but you'd never know different.

When I say "Get a job" I don't mean it in any moral sense of rightness. Get a job or rob a bank, I don't care. I was just trying to say do something with your time that puts money in your pocket. You're gonna be old one day and what will you have to show for your time on earth? A life wasted?

0

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by CT_Paterson in by !deleted31441

I don't know where you buy your phones but if you're like the vast majority of people, you'd buy in a store or mall kiosk, not from someone on the street, and it usually comes in a box. You don't turn it on before buying cause you trust the store/kiosk and you know you can bring it back if it's defective. Am i starting to make more sense than this original post??

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

I don't even think it's mistakes that get you caught. The most skilled lifter is bound to get caught if they lift long enough. On any given trip, the odds are heavily in the lifter's favor because the skilled lifter has the element of surprise (never know when they strike) and has no rules other than not to get caught. Still, if you lift regularly for 30+ years, LP is gonna get lucky that one time and happen to just notice you by accident.

The thing to do is develop a solid plan for what you're going to do when you get caught, and by caught I mean caught by LP (employees can't do sh!t so even if they call you, you can just ignore them). In most cases, if you hand back the merchandise you can just walk off and LP won't pursue, but then you have to think of what you're going to do when you come across the hard asses, the ones who gang up on you and want to hold you for the cops. That would be a tough situation to be in and how you handle is something you have to think long and hard about. I would certainly keep my mouth shut in front of them and the cops, and hire the best lawyer my money can buy.

0

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

Along the lines of what coinin9hands said, waiting for the opportunity might be worth it even when working alone in a store. I always pretend to do a few more rounds of walking the grocery aisles to see if the self check out attendant leaves the area. Might pull off a walkout that way or a quasi-walkout (where u stop at a self check out station but instead of scanning just bag everything and book it).

−1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

... which does NOT mean I don't do my best to act normal on the floor. There are things I don't do on the sales floor. I don't open packages. I take the whole item, never leaving packaging behind (cause I know from working in retail that the store won't know right away if item is missing, not for a long time).

When i do conceal on the floor, it's something either small enough to fit in my coat pocket or thin enough to fit between my abs and jeans. I reserve concealing for while i'm turning corners so it breaks LP line of sight. And while concealing, I make sure I cover as much of the item with my hand as possible, so if someone saw part of the act, they can't be sure if it's a store item i put in my pocket or something personal like a phone or wallet.

Lifting anything bigger for me involves pretending to scan it at the self check out, after legitimately scanning one or two cheap items. Works almost all the time. Risk: Minimal. If a missed scan is noticed by employee, it's chalked up to scanning error and we re-try (which is why I'm always prepared to pay for the item and return it at a later date).

2

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

It's not written that far back. It was still modern day even in 2007 but 14 years is an eternity in the life of store policies and procedures.

That being said, after reading this I found a lot of his "information" to be incorrect, meaning my experience does not confirm it. For example, he says single males who walk into the store fast and carry just a basket instead of a shopping cart, and who walk straight to a specific area or hang around too much in an area without actually "shopping" are instantly watched. This is ME pretty much most of the time, due to my nervousness, and I can tell you that NO ONE's been watching me. And I would know because I treat everyone around me as potential LP so if I spot the same person again as I move around the store, I abort. Period.

Literally, I regularly do most of the "suspicious" things like watch for cameras, take too long to examine something or look around, etc. And yet to this day I have not been made, after lifting tons of stuff, even doing walkouts.

This leads me to believe that just like our advice here, former LP advice is largely anecdotal as well. Just like there's no magic bullet in shoplifting that works all the time, there's no foolproof way LP uses to determine who's a shoplifter. For what it's worth, I've come to the conclusion that LP "catches" are more a matter of luck on their part than any special skill or strategy ... (to be continued)

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

If I'm gonna stuff cereal boxes with items i plan to lift, I may as well just do a plain walk out after bagging them in a blind spot. In terms of risk, what the hell's the difference??

If staff catches me doing this, they may as well notice me walk out. The intent in both cases is clear.

1

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Lol, no, I don't let their luck get that far. The plates part I can control.

I make sure to park quite a ways away from the store's lot, so if caught and i have to run, i pretend I came to the store on foot and start walking around a block or two until LP is gone. Then I come for my car in the adjacent lot. No problems so far.

1