GoodOldWorkingClass

GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

You didn't "have to" pay >$100 for the <$5 item. You paid because you wanted to.

There is no such thing as restitution if the item was recovered. They couldn't have made a case in court for it. Where's the loss to the store? LP would still have been on the clock during the time they dealt with you, even if they hadn't dealt with you.

Did they threaten you with criminal charges if you don't pay? It's an empty threat. If they wanted to work with the DA to nail you criminally they would've done so already. They simply want money out of you, and the scare of criminal charges works like a charm, almost all the time.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

I think what prompted my response is the all-too-common "I'm not a lawyer but ..." which I hear all the time. You're not a lawyer but you have an opinion. So do all of us and I hate to break it you but even if you were a lawyer you still wouldn't exactly have me hypnotized. There's very little you can tell me I can't find written somewhere.

As for answering his questions, since all we have is opinions, I think I can make a try, just like the next guy:

if I had lied said I had nothing and started walking what would he do?

No real way to know without knowing the LP personally. He could be someone who lets you go or some hot head who thinks he's special forces. Real stories of both extremes abound.

Are they allowed to psychically stop or search me?

They're only allowed to detain you if they're making a citizen's arrest, which has nothing to do with Shopkeeper's Law nor with the fact that they're LP. Anyone may make an citizen's arrest if they find you committing an offence (in this case shoplifting). As for searching during an arrest, I believe that's a no-no. It's the exclusive privilege of law enforcement in most jurisdictions. n

Is it true running ups the charge to robbery?

Again, no way to say for sure. Depends on particular state law.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Mr. Future Legal Worker

Did you know that not long ago the state of Georgia had a law that said no person may vote if they've been dead for more than three years?

Point: just because a law is on the books doesn't make it enforceable. Any cop worth his salt will tell you that enforcement on the street is quite another matter. At least a cop can justify his use of force in court by saying he acted in good faith and his word would go far just because of his status, but LP is just a private citizen. What excuse is there for beating the sh!t out someone and detaining them to your heart's content without calling the real law enforcement?

You say a judge gets to decide what's reasonable force.

Wrong! A judge gets to whether it WAS reasonable force or not, months after the event. I'm talking about what happens in the moment. It's just you and LP. How would it work out if you were the lifter, I was the LP, beat the living sh!t out of you because, you know what? you might've had a very sharp knife in your pocket. I don't know what you might have done to me or others. "It was all for everyone's safety your honor"

All around, I'd say this is not a can of worms you want to open. I think we can leave this at the agreement that Shopkeeper's law, like any other old law, is too vague to be of any use today, and that if it gets invoked in court, it's only to justify a course of action decided without it being considered in the first place.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

You're not a lawyer, you're not giving legal advice but ..... .... why the fcuk do you have standing to say ANYTHING?

reasonable grounds, reasonable force, reasonable investigation, .... nice sounding phrases but vague as hell. Who's to say what's reasonable?

Shopkeepers' privilege is an archaic law that doesn't quite make today's standards of clarity and enforceability, let alone hold in court. Best answer to the OP is that there's no way to know what would've happened if he'd run. It would've all depended on the guy asking him to cooperate. That said, if he'd handed over the items and then ran, it's hard to imagine the motivation to chase him beyond store premises, as merch is recovered.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Every bit you save helps. Now, that 2.50 is in your wallet, something you wouldn't have if you'd paid for it.

Couple of centuries ago when out of control inflation made life unaffordable, that was enough to stir up mass rebellion. Not today! Post modern societies are conditioned to take it in the asss, every day.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

I've just recently graduated to doing small walkouts. Up until now i've been doing concealing in my coat pockets, sleeves, waistbands and what not, or self checkout pretend-scan.

I've started small with walk outs, groceries mostly. I find it helps to bring a plastic bag from the same store (from some previous visit, i always save the bags), get your items in a basket, then just around the store's pharmacy corner bag them and at that point .... well, book it!

By which I mean, drop the basket and carry the bag, pretend to stop at the pharmacy window to ask something stupid. Then walk out as if you've paid for the items at the pharmacy counter, .... which is what you tell someone if they give you funny looks, "what was that? Receipt?, (pretend to beat your pockets) ummm, i don't think they gave me one" and walk out! No one's actually stopped me so far ... fingers crossed!

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

In the area I'm talking about, they went for the pricey supplements, over-the-counter medication (which I'm told they used as filler in real drugs), name brand health and beauty (hair dye boxes, expensive razors and shavers, etc.), anything in electronics or power tools section that wasn't locked up.

As for employees taking advantage, this store discovered a ring of nine employees involved in systematic theft just in the first year after opening. Needless to say, they were all fired and this fact was publicized to the rest of us as a warning.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by TheNerdyAnarchist in by cloneblown

Wrong!

They have you send money into a black hole, never to be seen again. End of Story! Who would fall for that? The kind of person who thinks pigs can fly. If someone had a method for getting cvv fulls (that's technical jargon for 'full numbers of valid credit cards as well as their correct expiration dates and 3-digit security codes from back of physical card' ... which is all u need to make online purchases without card present) ....

if someone could get all this info, they'd be using it themselves instead of selling it to others.

Kind of like those sites that promise genuine looking passports from [insert your favorite country here]. Wanna try sending money and hoping for a product?

You're welcome... that was free!

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

Reply to comment by chris2c in Walkout speedrun by staticprevails

Random second hand stuff is one thing, brand new merchandise is quite another. I can lift used textbooks from university campuses and put them on Amzon, but where's an INDIVIDUAL getting brand new appliances and household items if that person is not authorized retailer?

It can't be that simple. I don't think Amzon has made itself the fence of stolen loot. Whoever owns Amzon has to have thought of a defense to that charge. I'm pretty sure there are safeguards in place to work around. I just haven't found them yet.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

Reply to comment by staticprevails in Walkout speedrun by staticprevails

Hey, I sent u a private message, don't know if u got it.

I've been thinking about selling on Amazon but Amazon wants my full name, bank account, credit card to charge its fees to, and a tax ID number. If I'm going to expose my real identity that way I wanna be sure it doesn't come back to bite me.

If I'm only gonna open an individual seller's account, wouldn't someone at Amazon get curious about where an individual is getting, say, 1K of merchandise in one month? If Amazon reports my account for suspicious activity, won't I have to explain where the merch is coming from? I mean, one electric shaver in my possession I can explain away as an unwanted Christmas present, but a dozen?

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

The WamLart I used to work at was a new one. We took over the wide open empty floor and built up everything: the shelves, the fixtures, then stocked it for the grand opening. For one full year after the grand opening WE HAD NO SECURITY (yes, you read that right: no security, none whatsoever, and yes I'm being dead serious).

It made zero sense to start up a store in a ghetto area and leave it without security for its first year. Literally, the whole place was walking out under people's coats, waistbands, sleeves, and backpacks. I worked night shifts and the empty packaging we used to find everywhere was unbelievable (not to mention the old shoes in the trash cans, which they'd been swapping for the new shoes they walked out in). So I realized, if the Head Office wasn't batting an eye even with all this loss of merchandise, then Wamlart was raking in profits beyond anyone's dreams (by paying next to nothing for the merchandise and the labor).

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to by cloneblown

Get a real hobby pal!

This has never fooled anyone before and it sure as hell ain't gonna today.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Amass $10K in merchandise? ?

Where would you find the clientele to buy that? Are you part of some boosting network with fencing sources? If so, then yea that would explain your effort.

So far I've only lifted for personal consumption, but I've often thought of lifting some of the same stuff to sell privately (example: if i could lift an electric shaver for myself, why can't i lift more of them and sell to people face to face?) Problem with this is i'd have to meet strangers to sell to, after advertising the item on craigslist or kijiji, and i'm not comfortable with that. Strangers can mean trouble, plus if I constantly advertise online i could be made by cops. So I ditched the whole idea.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote (edited )

I have to ask: what exactly is there of value that you'd want to steal from libraries? Think about all the hands that have touched an item in a public place. If I'm going to take that item, it had better be the equivalent of a diamond.

That aside, morals are like fingerprints: everyone has a unique set of them. My view: if it's something in a library that has value to you (rare large print map or whatever), then go ahead and take it. You've more than paid for it with your income taxes. It's not like you're stealing survival money from some elderly pensioner.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

You sound like an LP troll.

We know what it's fcuk!ng called, and we know what we're doing. Treating us like idiots in an online forum does nothing for the fact that you have a pointless job, with no tools to do it, and that you're way outnumbered by us. Those you catch are more for show than anything else (i.e. to scare honest customers who are already on your side anyway). It does absolutely nothing for US!

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by A_Plus in Who does shoplifting affect? by Slyone

lifting may be a little wrong, but every country and company is run and probably founded on principles of corruption, greed and lawlessness

Shoplifting is definitely NOT wrong at all! Not as long as there are fat pigs who make fabulous profits off of my labor (yes, the work of my muscles).

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

It's a stupid thing to do if you're aiming to be a successful shoplifter, because in that case the last thing you want to do is draw attention to yourself; that much should be obvious, ... if you're not smoking something.

As for it being illegal, there's no shortage of catch-all charges in criminal codes, anything from defacing property to just garden variety mischief. Not that it matters. You are on THEIR property so if you trash it they're within their right to ask you to leave, and to kick you out if you refuse.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Let me see if I get this straight: You started this post because someone told you the other day shoplifting affects the working class.

I don't suppose you'd believe me if I told you that you can jump off a high cliff and fly!

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by BigThief in Who does shoplifting affect? by Slyone

Yes, I have.
Was an assistant manager for just over a year. It doesn't matter what you are in retail anyway. Headquarters sends the same boilerplate message to all employees, management or otherwise: "We've got to increase store profitability, we've got to combat shrink."

But at the end, no matter how well a store does, they still cut jobs anyway. Like I said, it's what they're there to do: cut operation costs. You have no way to cut costs of shipping merchandise to stores, but hourly employees, ... every waking day you can figure out ways to do with fewer and fewer of them.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to by !deleted34514

I don't know where you live but in my area if it's for anything under $5,000 charges have to be filed within 6 months.

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GoodOldWorkingClass wrote

Reply to comment by BigThief in Who does shoplifting affect? by Slyone

You've spoken to managers? And that gives you what exactly? Real knowledge? Managers only believe what the corporation wants them to believe, because it suits the corporations if managers believe shoplifting affects them: that's how they're going to get management to take an active role in preventing lifting.

What you've said is 100% garbage. Seriously, corporations don't cut jobs because of shoplifting. They cut jobs because they were gonna cut jobs anyway. It's what they do every day. Sit at the corporate tables and figure out ways to eliminate labor, shoplifting or not!

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