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nbdy OP wrote

Finished watching this. It’s interesting to hear people talk about moralizing while still within the ‘left’, as my introduction to the concept and the critiques came from post-left anarchy. I did really like the line ‘there’s no way to tell if you’re an anarcho-syndicalist with an anime cat girl avatar or a nazi pretending to be’ or something like that, and alongside that, it’s also quite interesting that the group who go after contra the most seem to be Twitter anarchists.


enforcedcompliance wrote (edited )

I dislike Contra because she's truscum -- she often reminds me of a cis woman more than a trans woman and it's part of the reason she gets as much attention of she does.


masque wrote (edited )

The linked video explicitly addresses the claims of her being truscum (with reference to specific videos and tweets), and in my opinion (not that I expect you to care what some random internet stranger thinks), her defense seems reasonable and sincere, and entirely accords with my existing impression of her beliefs from previous videos.

I don't mean to launch in to a long defense of Natalie here, but considering that the very topic of the video in question is the way that individual mistakes (or just disagreements) can get expanded, misrepresented, and weaponized against marginalized people within their own communities on social media, I just can't in good conscience pass over this thread and implicitly contribute to the same problem without throwing in my two cents.

If you want to hear Natlie's own defense, the relevant section is from around 39:27 to 53:11, and if you don't want to patronize support her youtube channel or watch 14 minutes of video, I can provide a transcript of the relevant section.

EDIT: I've just realized that while I used "patronize" to mean "be a supporter/patron of" it could also be interpreted to mean "be condescending towards" which completely changes the meaning of the last sentence and turns it into an accusation. Sorry about that; I don't think I've ever had a single unintended double meaning fuck up a sentence that badly before.


transtifa wrote

Yeah, watched part of it, no.

"I've moved on in my thinking" isn't a valid defense when the problem most people have with her is the fact that she's never given a sincere apology.

What she said about the problem with simplistic slogan-y narratives in leftist places is a valid critique but I don't want to hear it from her. Defs not.


masque wrote

While "I've moved on in my thinking" was certainly her defense for some specific tweets, I thought she laid out a strong argument that accusations of being "truscum" (or, more specifically, transmedicalist and/or NB-phobic) were simply not well founded, and directly contradicted by the viewpoints expressed laboriously in her previous videos. For these broader accusations, she didn't give an apology because she simply (and, I think, correctly) claims that the idea of her being transmed/NB-phobic was never accurate in the first place.

The defense of "just because some people were hurt doesn't necessarily mean I did something wrong" with respect to Buck Angel certainly feels a bit off on some visceral level, but I don't have the first-hand experience in the community to understand this aspect of things in as much depth. I only popped into this thread because I've always been surprised by the accusations of her being transmedicalist or NB-phobic (I say this as a questioning-but-probably-NB-leaning-at-this-point person myself), since it seems to reflect a very poor interpretation of her videos, and that combined with the meta-nature of the video made me feel like I should at least make an effort to engage.


enforcedcompliance wrote

Lol, imagine telling me not to patronize a YouTube channel by patronizing me. 😂😂😂😂


masque wrote (edited )

I'm very sorry if my comment came across as patronizing. That was not my intent.

EDIT: Sorry, that was a bad apology. Allow me to rephrase: I'm sorry that I wrote my comment in a patronizing way. I will try to avoid that in the future, although I admit that it's still not clear to me what the correct way to express this disagreement would have been.

EDIT2: Wait, I just realized that my use of the word "patronize" in my original comment had an unintended & accusatory double meaning. I'll add an edit to that comment as well.


enforcedcompliance wrote

EDIT2: I just noticed that as well, sorry. 😋 But my mind isn't changing. She's just another youtuber looking for views and will back track on anything to keep views coming in.


kore wrote

Preface: I have not been following this and only really got an idea of what happened after watching this video, but I have watched a lot of her videos.

"Canceling" anyone other than repeated abusers/bigots with no remorse just rubs me the wrong way. I was truly appalled to see some of those tweets, I am really glad I'm not on Twitter cause I think I would either get extremely upset by this or worse start doing it myself. The Social Industry truly brings out the worst in people.

I also find it interesting that people seem to be upset about the financial aspect of all of this while they are literally making money for twitter by participating in the public shaming. Get off twitter!!!

Regarding "non-binary": My "non-binary" gender identity is primarily a product of my sustained, years-long reflection on dualistic thinking in general. So it's totally mind-boggling to me that self-professed "non-binary" people can be so essentializing when it comes to things that aren't gender. Maybe it's just the Raddle anarchist bubble, but seriously what.

Also can I just say that the background during that twitter montage is genius hahahaha.


Stuckinthecity wrote

This video made me understand SOME things a bit better. I still just see cancel culture (as it currently exists) as concern trolling and harassment and we need to condemn that shit. It can never really be said enough imo. Contra should be questioned on the things she says and does, not who she is. I agreed with that part 100%. The internet dogpiles a lot, and we can’t deny that either. It just happened to latch onto a valid idea.

Having said that, I don’t feel like this video is helping entirely. Maybe my circles just aren’t the same ones in the video, but where I sat, it was mostly about how her thoughtless tweets could enable worse people. People take clueless white celebrities’ voices way too fucking seriously, and often act out on it because we elevate those voices so high. That ties into accountability, right? It also ties into how we view idols too. The BA shit and how she basically sidestepped his shitty behavior definitely rubbed me the wrong way also.

Ehh. Idk. This post is disjointed. I haven’t really been in too many explicitly lgbtq circles I admit, so maybe there’s more to this, but it felt like the more valid criticisms were barely addressed.