Submitted by tuesday in thoughts (edited )

tl;dr because this is long: Is there a good reason why anarchists who aren't doing illegalism shouldn't just ... be out there with our whole names and faces?

So I'm just going to ask, and idk, call me a cop and ban me if that's the thing that feels safe for this space. But this is really chewing on me and there's some pretty critical timing. Like I have to make a decision before Monday.

I've posted that thing I wrote, mentioned elsewhere that I'm thinking of starting a distro, asked about op sec. This is because I'm thinking about starting a distro and doing actual grass touching tabling around the state I live in, because there's very really truly nothing out here. There's some MLs and anarchist larpers that live around the college towns and some mutual aid projects in some of the big cities (there are only three that I know of off the top of my head). But for most of the state there's nothing. I don't even know that there's a running FNB chapter anywhere.

Well, nothing but the internet and gen Z going wild on TikTok. Which is lovely to watch but the things that speak to kids are different than the things that speak to adults. Adults who are also anarchists, who do not have the emotional or physical wherewithal to do bloc anymore, or who have familial obligations that preclude them from out in the world flashy illegalism.

So what is an old riot grrrl who used to revel in this shit but is now too old, disabled, and fat to do the fun shit like banner drops and cop watch patrols supposed to do? The answer used to be open infoshops and start free stores and anarchist libraries. We used to be the ones taking spaces so that we could talk to the people, so that we could build community, so that we could be a space for people to come when they needed something. I remember in the early aughts I moved to from middle of nowhere to Chicago with a suitcase and a sligshot organizer so I could hit up the libraries and infoshops for information and to make connections with the locals, and the phone number of a friend. That kind of freedom of movement isn't possible anymore because there are so few in real life anarchists around anymore that are working to create that space.

The state stole that from us.

Now no one is an anarchist in real life. They scared us out of the ability to actually build communities. We all have to always be aware because the state is watching us. I've spent the past month trying to figure out how to build a distro and do the kind of activism that I want to do (infoshop/meeting space) while also being in school to do a job where a lot of people in law enforcement are going to know my name and they won't like me at all.

But for real, if the FBI is actually watching me they're going to be very bored. I've been looking for office copy machines and trying to source cheap toner for a couple of weeks now. I've also been looking at online auctions for glass jars to buy so that I can go to the bulk store and not rely on packages so much. I also wrote a largely ineffectual zine that maybe 50 people will ever read, shit posted a bunch all over the internet, in mostly anarchist or anarchist adjacent spaces. I don't do anything.

I want to go out. I want to talk to people again about it, not just people that already agree with me. I want to plant seeds.

I sometimes think about how at one point in time there were millions of people in federations, and honestly, I don't care so much about federations or anything like that, but it's wild to think that there was a time when there were millions of people who had their entire name linked to an anarchist organization. I was told at a FNB cook once that we shouldn't use our real names when we're cutting vegetables. What normie is going to hear that and think that this is a totally normal place to be where normal people do normal things? When we are actually just normal people?

How are we supposed to build any kind of community if we can't be our whole entire authentic mostly boring anarchist selves? Obviously if you're doing an illegal then be as careful and as safe as you absolutely can be. But me? I'm fucking boring. I don't even lift anymore because I'm more useful to folks locked up from the outside than I am from the inside. Why shouldn't I just be able to be like "Hey normal person, my name is INSERT ACTUAL NAME HERE, I'm an anarchist. This is what it's like."

Can I just do my distro and be open about building community or should I just hide this part of me away into online spaces? Is there a good reason that anarchists who aren't doing illegalism shouldn't just ... be out there with their whole names and faces? And like, to be clear I'm not suggesting that we give out our addresses to everyone and drop doxxable info all over the internet. But it feels so much like we've all accepted the idea that we need to hide our political philosophy, so much so that we don't have publicly available spaces anymore. and worse that we're often forced to work with people who are working towards ends that are incompatible with an anarchist society if we want to touch grass.

Is this the worst idea???

How do we build a community if we only talk to each other online and we live in places where no one is doing anarchy out loud except in masks and within small tightly knit friend groups?

9

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

Bezotcovschina wrote

Sure, weight your risks up and act accordingly.

Honestly, I think most people here can post their names, photos and address right here and be completely safe. I think I can. But I do understand why they don't want to. And some people absolutely can not.

I agree that false sense of insecurity might be completely paralyzing for their anarcho-adjusting activities. But for some people in some places strict security measures are foremost necessity. Just be reasonable about it. I would absolutely loved to see more people on streets openly associating with and doing anarchy. And I accept that not gonna happen in foreseeable future.

3

tuesday OP wrote

Thanks for affirming my thoughts on just being so boring that it doesn't matter if I am named or not. Obvi I'd rather the internet not find out who I am but I'm not going to drive myself crazy trying to hide and trying to figure out if I need two computer and blah blah.

I'm gonna go and be an anarchist out in the very conservative rural streets of my town. :3

(I'm already terrified)

3

[deleted] wrote

2

Bezotcovschina wrote (edited )

lovey-dovey commie things, for starters

But, seriously, tricky question. I didn't thought it out before I've wrote it. Honestly, for me it would be heartwarming to see people doing anything anarchy-related. Yes, FNB, yes, libraries too. Graffiti, banners, squats. I'm not picky.

4

[deleted] wrote

3

Bezotcovschina wrote

perfectly legal and innoffensive

yes. Not everyone who describe themselves as an anarchist are ready to torch a police car today, for variety of reasons. But a lot of them are starving for an affirmative action. Lack of it takes a great toll on one's mental integrity. It might (is) be ineffective at all, but do we judge all actions by their effectiveness (productivity?) here? It's more like self-care than anything at this point.

3

tuesday OP wrote (edited )

My heart explodes with joy every time I see a circle A out in the wild. I want to run to them and be like SIBLING I HAVE LOOKED FOR YOU SO LONG BUT NOW I HAVE FOUND YOU!!! I LOVE YOU!!!! and then give them a big hug, but I think that would be weird.

3

flingwingin wrote

It's not the worst idea, and this post is pretty inspiring. I want to be more open about my thoughts and desires and plans with people but i dont really know how to start even.

I still do/want to do the flashy illegalist stuff, but i don't think that means we need to be totally underground. No amount of stolen food or arson will bring down the system or even really help it along in its decline. Thats like leftist guerrilla above ground/underground split ideas. When people are fed up and brave enough, that shit won't be separate. For lots of people thats reality already I guess. I just don't have the courage to really be openly crazy and also do crimes yet.... What do you think though?

Also keeping some things private, like your government name, isn't being shady or antisocial, like you don't go and give people a picture of your fingerprints and a vial of your saliva when you meet them. They dont need to know that shit and it means you can be doing face to face honest community building but put yourself at less risk. It makes me sad when people learn about opsec and then hide behind it and from their friends and allies - the point of that stuff is to let you be safe enough to speak. Like whistleblowers.

good luck with your distro and everything

i can't even imagine what it used to be like smh. I know there's some distros and squats out there and i plan on getting in touch with everyone i can soon and trying to build up contacts and networks cause this is a thing that affects lots of this generation of anarchists, there's no clue where to go so people just go online for the discourse. I'm tired as fuck of discourse only, and the expectation that all "actions" are basically solitary or done during other people's protests or you join some nerdy group of activists or you have a long-time friend who happens to also have ended up anarchist who you do shit with. For most people none of these are good options. We gotta not let the internet hinder actual networking, and so many ppl suffer from isolation but like there's a way to talk to ppl so far away based on shared interests... what gives?

also though as a non-senior anarchist, i'm kinda sad that it seems that when anarchists age they basically all stop trying to change things materially and just pass on their hopes to the next generation or something, or wait for insurrection to join, or just die of drug overdose or something ig. Shit's messed up. I want to know how you feel about this - do you feel like you've been growing more and more and it's more from advanced/enlightened theory or life experience that makes you more passive now, or have you just been beaten down and burnt out and given up on an active role? (or other?)

3

tuesday OP wrote

Sorry I took so long to answer. I'm back in school now so my time is eaten up with studying.

do you feel like you've been growing more and more and it's more from advanced/enlightened theory or life experience that makes you more passive now, or have you just been beaten down and burnt out and given up on an active role? (or other?)

When I was like in my late teens, early twenties it was the end of the 90s and into the early aughts I did a lot of protesting and stickering and banner drops, some bloc, you know, I was out and doing stuff. I would get arrested a bunch, but back then they'd do catch and release, so they'd keep you overnight and let you go in the morning without charges, usually. I was lucky enough to never catch charges.

And then some personal stuff happened and I wasn't able to really participate in any actions anymore and I was doing my own thing. It was maybe 10 years ago when I was back in a place where I could DO things and found a wildly different scene. The state really did a number on us and their increased power makes it harder for us. I don't think that we can underestimate how exhausting it is to deal with constant police interactions, especially knowing how gross cops get when they're challenged. People are exhausted, and that's on purpose. The state does that on purpose.

And for me personally, as I got old and fat I also got an injury that makes it hard to walk so I can't run anymore, you know? I'm not likely to do something that might necessitate me running away because I just can't physically do that. Which is why I'm thinking about what sort of things I can do. And idk maybe I'll be able to use that to inspire other old heads to get back in the game?

2

flingwingin wrote

I hope u find the thing lol. I know other people in your shoes who are equally like "idk what i can do rn, so im just waiting for shit to happen and tryna be good to people and support shit where i can for now", it'd be sick to see the anarcho-boomers come back to life.

Also i think there's tons of things that u could do... also your legal shit is cool af. Be a real life saul goodman or smth lol

TBH i'm kind of hopeful around the total loss of orgs, like i was in a phase where i looked for shit and everywhere i looked its like, they just disappeared like 2009-2013 or became ghosts. But maybe that means there's new stuff brewing? Cause tbh activist org style, well ig this is with hindsight and the analysis of the people in that scene, but it wasnt very effective and was a big target for law enforcement. I see cool things happening in the future, cause revolt never really stops :)

They say with rattlesnakes, when it stops rattling thats when you should be scared lol. This but for anarchist activities.

gl with your studies frfr

3

lettuceLeafer wrote

I live in, because there's very really truly nothing out here.

That actually might not be true. I do anarchist stuff tho I don't brand it as anarchist. Since my state has nothing to we could be next door neighbors for all u know.

I was told at a FNB cook once that we shouldn't use our real names when we're cutting vegetables.

Using fake names is cool af. Fuck birth names. Lol

Personally it seem like u r getting really hung up on calling yourself an anarchist publicly rather than doing anarchy. Like for me personally I have no desire to call myself an anarchist. Most anarchists online piss me off and the few irl don't impress me.

I just live my life influenced by anarchism and doing stuff with other non anarchists who r cool. Which I'm fine with.

2

tuesday OP wrote

Personally it seem like u r getting really hung up on calling yourself an anarchist publicly rather than doing anarchy.

I've been really thinking about this for a few hours and I don't know. Like I don't know how to do the kind of work that I want to do without saying to people I'm an anarchist? How do you do a table where you're giving out free shit about anarchism and talking to people about it without being able to be like "yeah I'm an anarchist."

And I guess the question is what does it matter if people know that about me in real life? I think we should normalize that. You can work with whoever you want but if we don't ever talk about it, then how are we going to build anything? We should be constantly planting seeds? I dunno. Maybe that's just me.

I'm not trying to take anyone's membership card. I'm also not trying to make it seem like I'm special for it. I'm just a normal ass boring person who gets stoned way too often and who is a little over bearing and weird. What if I'm out at a table and I'm talking to people and then the next time there's a thing and the media is demonizing anarchists Kevin from Newton will be like "wait but we met that one anarchist and they were cool, maybe we should ask them what's going on?" you know?

I'm really tired. :(

3

lettuceLeafer wrote

Like I don't know how to do the kind of work that I want to do without saying to people I'm an anarchist? How do you do a table where you're giving out free shit about anarchism and talking to people about it without being able to be like "yeah I'm an anarchist."

You can't. I wouldn't do something like that tho. But it sounde like u r excited about it which is a good reason to do it. Tho it's something I would argue is something I would never do. So in my example u just wouldn't do that kinda activity. Tho I don't want u to not so it bc I'm against it.

You can work with whoever you want but if we don't ever talk about it, then how are we going to build anything? We should be constantly planting seeds?

I don't know why bringing up anarchism would be helpful. Most anarchist want to run stuff in ways I'm against. By build u just mean do stuff. So I just do it anarchistically and tell people I work with how I want it. U don't need to be an anarchist or read theory to work with me to run something less hierarchically and not being blatantly oppressive.

Not sure what planting seeds means in this context.

And I guess the question is what does it matter if people know that about me in real life?

Not really, I think its a identifyer that looses it's use off the internet. Some people might immediately shut down ur ideas if u say let's do it like and anarchist and is a descriptor that probably overcomplicates your ideas rather than simplify them. I would say it doesn't really matter. U might find a few more anarchist and maybe have more annoying discussions.

Im not trying to take anyone's membership card. I'm also not trying to make it seem like I'm special for it

I feel like this is targeted at someone else bc I couldn't care at all about these kinda things. If anything I would probably life it if u told some Redditors that they aren't real anarchists lol.

What if I'm out at a table and I'm talking to people and then the next time there's a thing and the media is demonizing anarchists Kevin from Newton will be like "wait but we met that one anarchist and they were cool, maybe we should ask them what's going on

If that's something u care about and want to do go ahead. U don't need my stamp of approval. This kinda changing hearts and minds thing is something I'm vehemently against engaging in. But if u wanna go ahead. Nothing oppressive or wrong about it. Just something I don't care about so I wouldn't do or whatever.

3

tuesday OP wrote

You are correct that I don't need your stamp of approval, but I'm curious why you advocate against it?

2

lettuceLeafer wrote

For a variety of reasons.

For one I think understanding anarchism fundementlly isn't about being convinced of a good idea or something. If u want a limktoast follower who fill vote and follow societal norms with using rhetorical strategies and good arguments is good enough.

That isn't really going to spur to someone to serious action. If all it took to catalyze them to change positions was a zine and someone talking to them they probably will be convinced by the next person with a kinda logical argument and a zine.

I think this is why a site very intent on doing the hearts and minds changing opinions is Reddit. And it's flooded with anarchists who promote tons of oppressive stuff bc breif arguments convince them to do it.

Learning anarchism takes tons of conviction and usually the peole who have that become anarchist when they are in super desperate parts of their life. Politicians also like Thai demographic and try to change their hearts and minds.

But I don't view anarchism as a political campaign with promises. Anarchism is an activity u experience. Anarchism isn't useful for it's promises but it's experices and what u do with it.

If someone's life is shit and they do some soul searching and anarchism improves their life that will be someone I trust way way more than someone who was a liberal than read bukunin then changed their mind.

There is nothing wrong with those people but it seems to me that if anachism is a political program rather than a lifestyle people do it poorly and go back to liking oppressive stuff when it gets hard.

I guess on another hand I kinda feel like trying to electioneer anarchism is missing the point. I think rather than trying to convince people to be an anarchist just doing cool shit and when u make people's lives better they want to do more stuff with u and when they are asking for how to do anarchism u help them find it.

I think raddle is a good example of this. It is just people's talking with each other about stuff rather than trying to radicalize the lurkers or whatever. I mean sometimes people do that but that's not what Im here for.

The discussions and community of people and u can view the discussion and maybe u look at a problem a different way or have a place where u can talk about ur gender disphoria and go dang these people seem to have it figured out. I wanna keep doing stuff they do.

People come to and ask for anarchism and then partially engage in anarchism themself is a great way for people to change their options.

While coming to people and then trying to convince the why anarchism is good prob won't be that great.

Also I think dramatic changes to someone's oppion crack for complicated reasons. Even if the ideas make the person's life worse and u put up a perfect argument if they are in the wrong mindset it will be a complete waste of time.

It's the people who are looking for something or trying to gain something are worth explaining anarchism to?

2