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OdiousOutlaw wrote

Violence is a tool.

Either use it with the expectation that others will use it against you or don't use it at all if you can't deal.

Thankfully, this is not an anarchist exclusive issue; fascists, liberals, and communists do it, too.

Still I can't help but wonder if any of the "propaganda of the deed" era anarchists completely forgot about the state's monopoly on acceptable violence; did any illegalist express surprise when they found themselves at a metaphorical or literal guillotine after stabbing an aristocrat? Is this a new thing brought by decades of unchallenged neoliberalism and Western privilege?

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

Either use it with the expectation that others will use it against you or don't use it at all if you can't deal

My thoughts exactly

did any illegalist express surprise when they found themselves at a metaphorical or literal guillotine after stabbing an aristocrat

Lol

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[deleted] wrote

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OdiousOutlaw wrote (edited )

This attitude is prevalent among anarchists living in places that benefit from neoliberal policy. The west and it's current dominance through neoliberalism.

There are far more anarchists who are surprised by the state's capacity for violence (particularly when it strikes them, as it's violence was previously imagined, a hypothetical; not an experienced reality) because they've never really opposed Western power structures before. It's "displaced" from their lives; an abstraction. As opposed just about anyone living somewhere that doesn't benefit from neoliberalism, who have to face their own state violence due to and in addition to the West's. This, of course, doesn't come off as as a surprise to westerners of marginalized groups due to the fact that they don't really "get" all of the benefits of living in the West as well as having to deal with state violence as well.

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ziq wrote (edited )

I'm actually trying to describe that weird leftist mishmash of morals here

/w/morality_vs_ethics

edit: finished it

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

I really like the edits you made and your response to the mishmash if morals. It makes sense and I really like it. Other than your critique of egoism I agree with everything u said.

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ziq wrote

I critiqued egoism? Don't even remember that

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

Maybe u removed it. Tho on your first posting of the essay to raddle u said something about how even egoists have ethics it's just that their ethical guidelines are selfishness.

I skimmed the parts I had already read of your essay so I just assumed u kept that bit. Tho I could be misremembering.

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ziq wrote

Yea ur misremembering

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

Damn, I've really been hitting you with some really shit arguments lately. Sorry bout that.

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

I thought of this while reminiscing about the Kyle ritenHouse thing. Like some anarchist got shot while performing violent insurrectionary behavior. Uhh sure disappointing but it's to be expected doing that kinda thing.

Like people were having a moral outrage that the guy who was literally chasing Kyle as he was running and trying to beat him up got killed. Yes that was a sad loss and I send thoughts and prayers but moral outrage?

It's not a moral insustice if someone escalates a deescalated conflict to the level of deadly force getting killed when they lost said fight. It's a loss for anarchist.

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kin wrote

Maybe the situation of the killing of Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber was because the popo was putting these "patriots" to do their dirty work, not because some anarchist was shot down in action. The same with Michael Reinoehl, the outrage was the "unfairness" of the situation.

But maybe you have a point, we need to be less naive in this sense.

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

Maybe the situation of the killing of Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber was because the popo was putting these "patriots" to do their dirty work, not because some anarchist was shot down in action

I'd say thats a fair critisim. I was actually pretty active on anarchist Twitter when the video dropped. So most of the anarchists takes in the situation where before people knew why Kyle was there.

Maybe majority of the takes got better as more info was released. I do agree that there is something to complain about alt righters coming and doing cops job.

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kin wrote

Internal contradictions my dear...

I prefer to be a wandering Metamorphosis, and it's all about constructing oneself, I aspire to ideals that I may never attain

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existential1 wrote

I feel like it's a manifestation of human emotional range.

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