Submitted by n_n in meta (edited by a moderator )

u/Tequila_Wolf here, locking this thread. 124 comments for this mess is an eyesore and it's a shame this is now the most commented post in f/meta.

Anyone is free to PM me if they feel it should be unlocked or want to take the conversation further.

I will archive it later if I remember so we can clear out some comments and it won't clog the /comments section with mess.


u/earfuck70 (u/earfuck69 alt)

Transphobia:

https://raddle.me/f/AskRaddle/70669/-/comment/114975

Racism, white supremacy:

https://raddle.me/f/AskRaddle/70669/-/comment/114910

Reactionary ideology:

https://raddle.me/f/comics/70718/-/comment/114937

u/LearnedChao

Transphobia:

https://raddle.me/f/Trans/70774/-/comment/114893

u/PlopperPoop

Racism:

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/70790/-/comment/115024

Sexism

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/70653/-/comment/114721

Ableism:

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/70337/how-to-steal-any-item-without-even-entering-store

u/ThreeTimesThree

Colonialism and imperialism:

https://raddle.me/f/books/70724/-/comment/115042

https://raddle.me/f/Taiwan/70584/-/comment/114960

https://raddle.me/f/Taiwan/70584/-/comment/115043

https://raddle.me/f/Taiwan/70310/explained-why-taiwan-needs-new-submarines-to-deter-china

u/Francium

Ableism:

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/70613/-/comment/114723

u/Larryxkf77

Ableism:

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/70670/-/comment/114725

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/67934/-/comment/111588

u/DamnScalper

Ableism:

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/67934/-/comment/111588

u/I_buy_shit

Ableism:

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/70670/-/comment/114729

https://raddle.me/f/Shoplifting/70337/-/comment/114178

u/t_1635 and u/kensin for being reactionaries PoS

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Comments

The submission is locked. You cannot post new comments.

An_Old_Big_Tree wrote (edited )

At least in future with these, where you are posting to ban multiple users, please group posts by user and generally try to minimise on work admins need to take on in order to understand and further your request.

It'd take more than an hour to process this and respond appropriately.

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celebratedrecluse wrote (edited )

if we can't improve the site without making posts about how 10 people need to be banned simultaneously without individual discussion, Raddle has deeper structural problems than individual users.

I believe that these type of posts are wholly unnecessary, regardless of the behavior/posts in question, because it is terrible way to solve a problem

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ziq wrote

And forcing liberals to stop saying 'dumb' by threatening to ban them doesn't solve ableism.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

it might even engender a certain...resentment, or derision, such authoritarian implementations of anti-authoritarian ideas

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ziq wrote

If you do a search for 'dumb', it's all over the site in both post titles and comments posted by all kinds of users.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

Oh certainly, and it is a problem. I also use those words, and language equivalents, because it is normalized in the contexts I have lived in. we all need to think critically and continue to consciously shape our word choices, pretty much no matter who we are.

All i meant to communicate is that I was agreeing with you, that it is not a good way to change people's behavior or thoughts, to use authoritarian measures to enforce a certain way of behaving or thinking. When someone is willfully engaging in reactionary behavior, it is another matter of course, that is a matter of collective self defense. But, as I think you agree in this case, it is not really appropriate to take that tack to dealing with problematic language which is so thoroughly normalized in society, because "calling-out" is less effective than "calling-in" in this specific case.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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ziq wrote

Because one is socially unacceptable while the others are in common usage. We can't convince liberals that a word they and everyone they know uses multiple times a day in casual conversation is as bad as the r slur. If the pendulum shifts and 'dumbass' becomes as taboo as the r word, then we can make it policy. Otherwise we'd just be pushing a boulder up a hill.

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Snowy wrote

n_n maybe have some problems to comprehend English.

−3

celebratedrecluse wrote

Oh come on, that's a cheap shot, and isn't funny either. I really feel we shouldn't shame people for having trouble communicating, if they are trying to communicate in good faith. That's not the type of community I want to be part of, it's mean and kind of reactionary

That said, it's objectively ridiculous that you made this comment, of all comments, in broken english...

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n_n OP wrote (edited )

I dunno, I'm not native English speaker and I never finish high school because my disability. All that I know I learned it by my self. You learn a lot of things when you are poor in the street.

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n_n OP wrote

I agree, I would like to elaborated it better. :/ Although there are issues here that I don't think that it have been arise in other kind of post. The conversation have a lot of value to me, it made me look things different thanks to u/Ziq. Next time I will do better.

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Snowy wrote

This thread reminds me of how the Chinese government "educate" children.

They training children reporting each other often, sometimes just since a little mistake, sometimes just someone they dislike but did nothing against the law(but there are reports actually show someone against the law). In this environment, no one dares to say anything may trigger a report in a very small chance.CCP is very successful to make them fear and hate each other.

By the way, my "Taiwan No.1" thread was a bait. They take it, LOL.

−1

n_n OP wrote

So you are a supremacist troll, good to know that.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

There is a similar problem in white middle class suburbs in the United States, where a compulsive snitching culture makes sure everyone hates or fears their neighbors, especially if they try to actually form any sort of real community.

I think a lot of groups of people have these problems, it seems very common to me. we are all so quick to judge, fear, and hate others, even those who are "similar" to us, and especially those who show or embody some kind of "difference".

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ziq wrote (edited )

Support banning /u/earfuck70 and earfuck69, especially since I told them not to misgender someone and they responded with 'no fun'...

Support banning LearnedChao

Oppose banning ThreeTimesThree, being a hapless settler isn't a tos violation or we'd have to ban all of f/shoplifting.

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n_n OP wrote (edited )

According with the ToS:

Content Policy

Content is prohibited if it

Promotes [...] colonialism

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ziq wrote (edited )

It's not clear to me that they're promoting colonialism. They're just debating me on the definition of the word 'settler' because it's never occurred to them that their people (Han Taiwanese) could be settlers. I've had this same debate with European USAmericans, European South Africans and European Australians on the site before.

People don't like to accept that they were born as part of an oppressor group, it's not easy to digest for 99.9% of settlers.

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n_n OP wrote

I take it as promoting colonialism and imperialism after they recommended Henry Kissinger.

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ziq wrote

Have you read that book?

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n_n OP wrote

I know who Kissinger was. Promoting him here is enough for me.

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ziq wrote

I don't think reading a Kissinger book means you support Kissinger's crimes. We can't ban people for reading about Chinese geopolitics.

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earfuck70 wrote

I knew it. That kid has always been trouble...! Ban hammer.

−3

ziq wrote

Let go of that ego, guy.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

I'm not your guy, friend

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n_n OP wrote (edited )

I'm not your friend, pal.

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FreeIsForMe wrote

I think I_buy_shit posts alot of useful information and is very helpful in answering questions and giving advice.

By explaining how he was being an abelist is enough to give them a chance/warning not a ban.

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n_n OP wrote (edited )

The temp ban was rejected as too much. Freux suggestion is better imo.

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n_n OP wrote

u/Lucifer also made comments that trivialized rape but later apologized.

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[deleted] wrote

−1

n_n OP wrote

Here. Dunno if it's sincere or not, that's also up to debate.

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[deleted] wrote

−2

Lucifer wrote

What do you read minds now?

−2

[deleted] wrote

0

Lucifer wrote

Okay I'm done responding to you. You want to read whatever the hell into my comments, let that be your problem.

−2

ziq wrote (edited )

It isn't fair to group all these ban proposals together. People won't bother judging each case individually and are likely to just say 'support'. Collective judgement is unfair.

We should probably make a rule about this but the sidebar is already at its maximum character limit.

u/FusionTorpedo alts:

There's no way to prove that so it's not a good reason for a ban proposal.

EDIT:

u/PlopperPoop has already been banned.

EDIT2:

RE: /u/snowy, "reactionary ideology" could mean anything and isn't a clear ToS violation. "Xenophobia" isn't really a ToS violation either since they're technically punching up (Taiwan is an island, China is an empire).

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n_n OP wrote

They commented in the same posts with similar wording, anyway they are reactionaries.

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ziq wrote

I see a lot of the leftist ideologues that use this site as reactionaries, but that doesn't make them deserving of a sitewide ban.

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n_n OP wrote (edited )

What sets this site apart from others is our no-tolerance policy for bigotry and reactionary ideology

And xenophobia is bigotry.

I don't think that all deserve a permanent ban or site wide, that is up to debate in each case.

3

ziq wrote (edited )

reactionary ideology in that context means like "fuck immigrants, close the borders, white power!"

Xenophobia is deliberately not listed in the content policy because it would be construed as including incidents of 'punching up' (Kurds not liking Turkey, Iraqis not liking USA, Palestinians not liking Israel, etc.) Some forms of 'xenophobia' are understandable. No one likes their oppressors.

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n_n OP wrote

Kensin and t_1635 defended 8chan, that act is reactionary as say "they are good people in both sides". They try to whitewash fascist.

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[deleted] wrote

−2

ziq wrote

Would you ban a Taiwanese person for objecting to chinese rule?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

−1

ziq wrote

Where I'm from, Chinese and Russian Oligarchs have bought up all the coastal lands and rents have skyrocketed so much that indigenous ppl would have to spend 3x their salaries to afford a studio flat. They also see us as peasants and treat us like crap, calling us 'donkey person' and other insults. I don't like them and wish they'd go back to their countries. I think a lot of people would consider that xenophobic.

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n_n OP wrote

I take Snowy out of the discussion.

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n_n OP wrote

So I should make a post for each user?

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ziq wrote

I think admins should just ignore all the votes in this thread that don't specify the usernames their votes are being cast for.

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Snowy wrote

I guess someone can DIY 100 accounts per 1 minute for "voting",LOL.

−3

ziq wrote

See the sidebar. There are requirements for voting but I agree that voting to ban people is a bad system and easy to subvert.

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Snowy wrote

And what is xenophobia for saying many Chinese people promoted fascism?

I saw it with my own eyes.

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n_n OP wrote (edited )

Ok I will take it as a misunderstanding. I take back the propose.

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Snowy wrote

What the hell is "Reactionary ideology" for the thread I just said"Taiwan No.1"???

−1

n_n OP wrote

You went in a tirade attacking Chinese people, and then post that crap. So is tided to that until you apologized for your bigotry.

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Snowy wrote

I think you should apologize for your bigotry as well.

−2

n_n OP wrote

I understand your struggle, there are people in China that also are suffering oppression. There are entire camps where they are imprisoned. They are also Chinese. The people that you talked don't represent the 1.4 billion people of China. I just want you to have that in mind. If I was wrong in my grammar before, I would like that you point exactly where I was wrong. If you can point where I was a bigot I will apologize.

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