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jadedctrl wrote (edited )

Why is it such a big deal that Ziq had alternative accounts?

It's completely destroyed the image of raddle most of us had.

raddle wasn't a genuine community like we thought it was— a fair amount of faces we'd got to know were lies— and raddle wasn't democratic like we thought it was— they used these accounts to fake votes and completely sway dialogue in their favour (one of the more egregious things, IMO).

What they've done really hurt emma, and has hurt a couple others here because they acted with nothing but vitriol at times. Most of us really tried to forgive them. I went for bat for them just a couple days ago. But they've just fucking doubled down on this stuff after they apologized. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…

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Xylanthius wrote

Who is "we?" Who are you speaking for?

Are you saying that by making multiple accounts that he really hurt Emma and "others" because he was being cruel? Was he acting as cruel as some of the people act on this site on a normal day? Was he acting even a fraction as cruel as people act towards him ten times over?

When you say we, you are not speaking for every user on the site. I know this for a fact.

I don't think what he did was intentionally meant to hurt Emma. Emma was and is his friend. I believe that when he was aware that what he did was hurtful, he made a good effort to make amends as well as apologize not only to Emma but to others on the site. I think that if we all put a fraction of the effort we put into scapegoating Ziq into making the site better we would not be in this predicament.

I think that we could all be apologizing to ziq if he chose to take any of the things said to him as personal attacks. There have been many hurtful personal attacks towards Ziq. Things have been said to him that would have made me very confused, hurt, and angry. It is apparent to me with him gone the amount of effort he has put into the site. He makes a huge contribution. If I were him I don't even know if I would want to come back to the site after how the site has treated him. However, he is a person who is acutely focused on his values which is how this site came into existence in the first place.

Ziq is reliable, and when he says he is going to do something he follows through on it. If he does something he thinks may have hurt someone, he thinks about it within the terms of what HE did wrong, and what he could have done differently.

There is no reason to scapegoat him. I think that we can move forward from here.

I know for a fact that I am not the only one within this community who believes in Ziq. However, I also know that many don't want to take a stand or make a statement because they are afraid of the vitriol they may face from other users in response.

That is not good you guys if there are people in the community afraid of speaking their mind because they are afraid of getting personally attacked and stalked because of their beliefs. I think that is even worse than creating multiple accounts.

The only thing that bothers me about the multiple accounts thing is that I feel like we should feel like we have a safe space where we can be our authentic selves without fear being stalked or attacked. I would be surprised if Ziq would even want to come back and contribute again like he was before after all of that. If he would then that simply proves his dedication to his values which have been the foundation upon why this site was built in the first place. This man has a full-time job, a life, a family, a wife, hobbies, talents, and visions. Beings depend on him. He's a dedicated being. There is much more evidence being that he is a reliable person than not.

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sand wrote

raises hand yeah i've kinda scared to speak up tbh. idfw the ziq hate, but it's been easy to avoid posting about it when the abominators are really invested and seem to be into doxxing

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jadedctrl wrote (edited )

When you say we, you are not speaking for every user on the site. I know this for a fact.

Yea, that's a given. “We” is a good chunk of people here, but clearly not all of them.

It is apparent to me with him gone the amount of effort he has put into the site. He makes a huge contribution. If I were him I don't even know if I would want to come back to the site after how the site has treated him. However, he is a person who is acutely focused on his values which is how this site came into existence in the first place.

They've done some crazy shit. They've downright toed the line of gaslighting, made alts just to attack people, and then used alts to sway discourse in their favour (as recently as just fucking yesterday).

I'd totally get it if ziq stopped, if there was some reason to think they changed. I thought they did. I jumped right at their defense as soon as they revealed all of the alt accounts. But they just keep going at it. Yesterday was the stick that broke the camel's back for me.

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Xylanthius wrote

He's done "some crazy shit?"

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leftous wrote

Come on dude, doesn't this get old?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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leftous wrote

Lol I've prevented you from doxxing yourself multiple times. But sure, at least you continue to show me youre completely full of shit and untrustworthy.

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ziq wrote

Idk what you're on about but you have no high ground here. What you did was downright nasty. I've never done anything to you.

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leftous wrote (edited )

People have a right to know how many times you've done this exact shit. Why don't you disclose it to them?

You said you only did it to increase activity, but that is a lie since you did this for years on Reddit. You have serious problems, and I gave you several chances to figure your shit out. But it looks like this was all for nothing since you're still intent on being deceptive, manipulative, and just shit overall. It is beyond disappointing.

(And btw I see your multiple accounts being created and heavily voting on comment posts. Lmao)

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ziq wrote (edited )

Will you stop with the damn conspiracy theories?

You don't even seem to know the basic history of this site. Raddle started as a reddit sub. My reddit sub. A nihilistic humor sub that mainly lampooned the reactionary currents on the left.

Of course I had other accounts. How do you think that sub grew into what it became and then morphed into raddle? It wasn't even a secret, everyone made parody accounts on that sub and we were completely open about it. Growing that place taught me how to turn raddle into a thriving community.

I deleted my original reddit account like 4 years ago because it was doxxed. My next one I deleted when reddit banned my sub. Then I switched to one of the parody accounts I used on my sub, which got admin banned. So I switched again and deleted that when gnuponut started stalking me a few weeks ago. Fucking satisfied? Or do you need to know what I ate for breakfast on Oct 8 1989?

And btw I your see multiple accounts being created and heavily voting on comment posts. Lmao

Are you serious right now? What the hell is your problem? I'm pulled over on the side of the road in my car replying to your bullshit, I'm not making any fucking accounts.

Stop attacking my mental health. Stop demanding I compromise my security culture. Stop spreading conspiracies about me. And stop acting like I owe you anything. I don't. I don't know you and have no interest in knowing you.

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq wrote (edited )

When I created socialanarchism I only had my original account. Didn't make alts until long after that account was deleted and I was top mod on the humor sub. Stop fucking stalking me and stop lying through your teeth about what you find. I'm not using any reddit accounts.

I think you need to take a step back from all this and take some time to figure it out

disingenuous garbage. Leave. Me. Alone.

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Xylanthius wrote (edited )

You sound like a narcissistic parent. Did you not get enough love as a child? It seems like you are projecting your mental health on others. Are you okay? I want to give you a hug..

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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ziq wrote (edited )

Your grasp of my politics is even worse than your piss poor understanding of anarchism.

It's a youtube account. I have no remaining reddit account.

If I were an admin still I'd ban both of you for invading my security culture / doxxing me and for your repulsive paranoid attacks on innocent users that make the unforgivable mistake of not hating my guts like you want them to.

You lot ran amongstclouds out with this maoist shit and you're not doing it to this person too. I care about this person and I won't stand for it.

You're a skeevy little stalker. Every time you open your mouth malicious lies flow out of it.

Enough.

Do not engage me again.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq wrote (edited )

You have no fucking right to my identity. If someone wants to delete their account and use another they will do so. I will speak my mind. I will not sit idly by while you spread your lies and take every opportunity to attack me and spread rumors about me. Bribing my way back?? You're so full of shit.

STOP ENGAGING ME

Leave me alone right fucking now. I am not explaining myself to a doxxing stalking lying rumor-mongering pos like you.

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[deleted] wrote

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DissidentRage wrote

They've asked you to stop engaging them several times, yet you persist. Really think some people harp on this shit just to keep it going instead of engaging in good faith try try to actually work through shit.

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SouthsideGrackles wrote

Ziq is lying and manipulating people still. It is hard for people to watch them get away with it and live to harass and manipulate people another day.

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ziq wrote (edited )

raddle wasn't a genuine community like we thought it was— a fair amount of faces we'd got to know were lies—

Everyone on a message board is anonymous. None of us are showing our real selves. I'm not even the only admin who used alts. It's normal to want to keep your admin account seperate for security and practicality (people ragequit when admins disagree with them).

and raddle wasn't democratic like we thought it was— he used these accounts to fake votes and completely sway dialogue in his favour (one of the more egregious things, IMO).

My favor? No. I voted multiple times in the thread about making f/mediation because I was concerned about the wellbeing of the site.

My initial strategy to deal with people using f/meta to mount witch hunts against dissenters was to parody them with utterly ridiculous ban proposals against defasher that would be mocked and quickly fail.

That way, the kind of people mounting the witch hunts would not feel empowered to continue their reactionary behavior.

When f/mediation was suggested, I saw that as a better solution to safeguard raddle from the struggle sessions and the looming threat of tankie takeover and took direct action to support it.

Democracy is an incredibly dangerous thing when the people wielding it have problematic politics. I'm honestly not sorry for that. I did it to get people to mediate instead of demanding we ban their enemies. The goal is more important than the method. Raddle's wellbeing was more important than a naive attachment to 'democracy' on an anonymous messaging platform where anyone with a keyboard can cast as many votes as they want.

If irl democracy doesn't work, idk why you have any faith in message board democracy. I influenced policy the same way I tried to influence people to embrace good politics. I'm not a communist. I don't believe in democracy. I'm incredibly skeptical of self-declared 'leftists'. Nothing I did contradicted my own postleft politics or my vision when I built this community.

The only promise I made to r/@ when I made this site was that I wouldn't let tankies take it over and destroy it. I honored that promise until my last day as admin. I'm now no longer an admin or a user of this site and it's up to all of you to continue to safeguard raddle if you wish to.

I poured 2 years of my life into this site and I don't owe anyone anything.