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KillYourCiv wrote (edited )

If I get banned because of this, I shouldn't have come here in the first place:

I can't understand why people are so defensive of porn. Sure, I understand if you want to support people who are getting exploited by the industry. I do too. I have nothing but sympathy for sex workers. They are doing work that can be traumatizing and dangerous.

But here we get to my point; if sex workers face so many dangers in their job, doesn't that mean that there is something very wrong with work itself? I feel the same way about any exploitative industry; if some work harms people it shouldn't be supported. Porn is not inherently good. It isn't about sexual freedom of sex positivity (in fact quite opposite since large parts of porn is based on people having taboos about sex). Most of it isn't even nice to watch. Porn exists mostly because of needs of often troubled heterosexual men. Porn is deeply misogynist and sexist. You can't deny that.

So if porn is dangerous and harmful to sexworkers and sexist, why should we defend it? I don't understand that. Just because it brings pleasure to mostly male audience? Or is it some libertarian, freedom of speech type of thing?

I'm belong to a generation that has seen hardcore pornography since very early age. It has affected my ideas of what human sexuality is and should be like. I have also struggled with sexual addiction and porn gave me some very unhealthy views regarding sexuality. Without porn, my life would've been better. But this is not just about me. Many people suffer because of excessive use of porn. Do we just forget them or tell them to get help? That sounds like the very unhealthy views that society has towards people addicted to drugs and alcohol.

I don't just see any reason to be pro-porn. I want that we could live in a world in which porn isn't one of the most popular (and profiting) form of entertainment. I don't like the fact that there exists an industry such as porn industry. I can't just ignore all the abuse that happens in it. And I don't believe that the industry can be saved because the abuse has always been part of it. There is no "pure" and wholesome porn. Porn industry isn't about celebrating healthy and free human sexuality.

It could even be argued that porn itself is violence. Sexual intercourse with someone who you don't desire is violence. So why then it would be somehow different if somebody is filming it? Doesn't that only make it worse? And earning money doesn't change that.

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emma wrote (edited )

You or anyone else's personal unhealthy relationship with consuming porn shouldn't hold any weight in conversations about the struggles that people who produce it face. That relationship is your personal failing and your own experience, not anyone else's.

Sexual intercourse with someone who you don't desire is violence.

No. Sex without consent is violence. You came here the other day complaining that being anti-porn gets you lumped together with religious puritans. Have you considered that this is because you sound like one?

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KillYourCiv wrote (edited )

How do I sound like religious puritan? My main and only motivation here is being against violence and exploitation.

And I don't understand how someone can have consensual sex with someone who they don't want to have sex with? How that is even possible? Being involved in porn is mostly self-harm. And many former porn actors and actresses have told about their horrific experiences in the industry and how it wounded them permanently. But sure, you can just say that they are religious nutjobs and their experiences don't matter at all.

Almost all pro-porn arguments are cherry-picking and ignoring of real problems. They also tend to ignore the victims of porn industry. Porn advocates just brush away every uncomfortable fact and say they are lies of religious puritans.

But sorry if I said something that made you feel bad. Sorry to bother you with inconvenient facts.

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emma wrote (edited )

"Someone you don't desire" can be applied to both rapists and people you had one-night stands with... go figure.

Edit: lmao your edit just screams red flags. I see the exact same "just concerned" and "just facts" shit with TERFs.

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KillYourCiv wrote (edited )

Yes and self-harm is a real problem for many people. Not every form of sexual activity is safe or healthy. Just because something looks like fun doesn't mean it is. You can do things that you regret and that are bad for you.

Oh am I also a TERF now? You can check some time what I wrote about representation of transpeople in porn. And I'm also non-binary myself so there is that. But go ahead and just call me whatever you want to. That only shows the lack of any real arguments.

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emma wrote

Oh am I also a TERF now? You can check some time what I wrote about representation of transpeople in porn. And I'm also non-binary myself so there is that. But go ahead and just call me whatever you want to.

It's so funny to me when people get mad about things I'm supposed to have written, but didn't.

That only shows the lack of any real arguments.

Your entire damn argument is that you can't keep your hands away from your crotch, therefore this warrants abolishing the porn industry, with no discussion on how this might affect performers economically, and no acknowledgement that sending performers into unemployment or low-wage jobs is violence in of itself.

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KillYourCiv wrote (edited )

So now you are trying to attack me by insulting. Sorry, you won't the get reaction you want. This only tells about your complete lack of empathy towards others. Have fun living as sociopath!

EDIT: You people are always the same. It's more important for you to gain respect among like-minded than actually wanting to make world a better place. It's all about popularity and narcissistic desires. Good to know!

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emma wrote

So now you are trying to attack me by insulting

So far the only intelligent statement you've made.

narcissistic

Please. You came into a thread about site policy and went on an unsolicited rant about your masturbation guilt.

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KillYourCiv wrote (edited )

Your attack are almost funny. You don't even try to make arguments anymore. Your mask of sanity is totally off.

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ziq wrote (edited )

you were attacking her with your passive aggressive concern trolling, so...

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ziq wrote

how are you making the world a better place by accusing people of not liking facts?

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KillYourCiv wrote

All I'm trying to say is that porn industry is so full of shit that it can't be redeemed. But if that is not accepted we can't really help the victims of actual violence. If people just close their eyes and pretend that there is nothing bad in porn, the situation of sex workers won't be any better. I hate how sexist men at the top of porn industry are able to make a profit from the abuse and exploitation of sex workers.

And I'm not advocating here for some legal prohibition of porn. That wouldn't help. People should instead quit porn. Quit watching and making it. That isn't easy but in the end it is worth it. And the same should happen in every other abusive and exploitative industry.

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ziq wrote (edited )

i don't understand why you feel the need to do your nofap shtick in f/meta, it's not an appropriate venue for it and i'm not sure there is an appropriate venue since you're trying to tell people here (which includes several sex workers btw) that they're bad for participating in that industry

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KillYourCiv wrote

The workers aren't bad and I have never said that they are. The existence of industry and the billionaires making the most money out of it are.

If this would be a conversation about some other business, probably we all would agree. But since it's porn, it is somehow different. Why? Why is abuse in porn industry somehow less bad?

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emma wrote

can't believe no one thought about just quitting their exploitative jobs

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KillYourCiv wrote (edited )

So, let's do nothing and allow the abuse just happen again and again? Great!

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ziq wrote

you have no power to end an industry. you're just some chronic masturbator on the internet

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KillYourCiv wrote

And what gives you the right to insult other people? Do you think you are somehow better than others? Sorry, but you aren't. From what I know, you are just some anonymous person insulting me. That is nothing to me.

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ziq wrote

how am I insulting you? you're literally addicted to porn

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ziq wrote

it's suspicious that you made an account just to talk about this one topic, and the whole "inconvenient facts" line is a big red flag.

your opinions aren't facts

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[deleted] wrote

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KillYourCiv wrote

Most porn is heterosexist. And gay porn can also be very harmful and sexist.

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lastfutures wrote (edited )

This is very clearly a you problem. Like, I could argue specific points here, but it's clear those are irrelevant and you just have your own issues with porn & sexuality.

edit: To be clear, I'm not legitimizing your drug addiction analogy either, that's not what I mean by problem.

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KillYourCiv wrote (edited )

So is the violence and exploitation experienced by sex workers in porn somehow "irrelevant"? Could read again what I wrote?

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lastfutures wrote

Yes, it's irrelevant when talking to you, because it's clear you have personal issues with it that make the facts or rational discussion not matter when it comes to this topic. Trying to talk about the facts of the porn industry with someone so wrapped up in their own neuroses, sexual repression, anti-queerness, and so on, is impossible.

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KillYourCiv wrote (edited )

Anti-queer? WTF? If something, majority of porn is anti-queer. The representations of transpeople in it are simply horrible and transphobic. And I wouldn't call average lesbian or gay porn especially queer friendly or unproblematic. So-called queer porn is mostly made for male gaze and for straight pervs who have some disgusting fetish towards lesbians and transwomen.

I can take almost any insult that has been thrown here against me without any reason, but saying that I am anti-queer is crossing a line. You made me hate you. Are you happy now? Fuck you and everybody else here. This place is shit and full people defending sexism and abuse of women.

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emma wrote

good job making this entire thread about your personal redemption story or whatever

This place is shit and full people defending sexism and abuse of women.

There's only one of you, like you've admitted to being a serial wanker and stated in no uncertain terms that the desire to watch porn is the desire to see women abused. Here's hoping you get vga cables for christmas since you wanna keep projecting so hard. What you haven't done is take any responsibility for you seeking out this material on your own accord, and instead suggested porn performers could just leave the industry to make the problem (your problem) go away, never acknowledging what harm walking away from their income--possibly the only one that would gain them any upward social mobility--would cause.

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lastfutures wrote (edited )

As far as I can tell you're like one step away from calling gay men degenerates for having anonymous sex and saying the only healthy sex is between a husband and wife (or husband & husband). You're on some hetero Christian sexuality shit, it's anti-queer. Saying queer porn - which is often made by and enjoyed by queer people - is "horrible" and a "disgusting fetish", is anti-queer. You are disgusted by queer sexuality.

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