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Defasher wrote (edited )

"That state is less genocidal than that other state" is a whack argument, bruv.


SpiritOfTito wrote

Fuck that. If you expropriate the states from their material and historical conditions sure.

Cuba: Had upwards of 800 assassination attempts on its leader, poltical murders by the usa, had its factories bombed and its farms bombed to provoke a food crisis.

Yugoslavia: Dismemebered by NATO post ussr collapse

ussr: Went through world war 1 until the bolsheviks came to power on the back of promising to end the world war, from day 1 of their existence 14 capitalist nations invade the ussr with the last japanese soldier leaving in 1922, this militarised state now at war since 1914 paves the way for a machiavelli like Stalin to take power, in1931 he says 'we need to do what the capitalist nations did in 50 to 100 years in the space of 10 or we're finished" and by 1938 the ussr is again invaded by Germany.

I don't dispute the atrocities that went on in various communist states. What I do dispute is the propagandised angle the capitalist nations take on them while neglecting to mention the constant war like state they were in due to capitalist nations attacking them repeatedly.


Defasher wrote (edited )

And yet despite all that, they still failed to achieve communism. State communism doesn't work because the state is always under attack from external forces.

Decentralise and there's nothing to attack.

Install a ruler, and the ruler will be corrupted every time and when the ruler fails, the entire society fails. It's basic logic. Centralised power structures are doomed to fail.


SpiritOfTito wrote (edited )

My problem with your assessment is you seem to say "there was no point trying".

You seem to say it didnt end in utopia so it wasnt worth it. It wasn't worth the bolsheviks ending world war 1 and installing a genuine democracy (so afraid were the bourgeois by that revolution pretty much all capitalist nations gave men the vote the following year).

You seem to say it wasn't worth castro lifting up the poorest in his country from the illiterate, starving, gambling, prostitute and sex destination for bored middle and upper class americans it was under Batista.

Which I profoundly disagree with


Defasher wrote (edited )

I didn't say it wasn't worth trying, but what's the point of repeating the same action again and again when it always results in failure? Humans are too flawed to be trusted with ultimate power. Statism has never resulted in communism, so try something else.

And there will never be an utopia. Only permanent revolution.