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Pop wrote

Zapatistas 1994-present seems a pretty solid example of a decolonial anarchism that is really quite desirable

Revolutionary Catalonia - pretty sure they were also destroyed by russian communist power

Most of humanity was acephalous hunter-gatherer society and even moving out of that much of it was proto-anarchist at least by most people's best understanding, but there are large societies even today with strong affinity for anarchy

Loads of daoists were also proto-anarchist for significant periods as I understand it (nice book to look at here)

I don't think that the long term and predictable failures of politically-mediated socialisms are any better than the short term and predictable failures of those who start without a state in the first place

I think there's too much to unlearn for us to start from compromise with the state

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SpiritOfTito wrote (edited )

You added more and frankly I'd disagree. You cannot divorce a society from their material conditions and just push into anarchist/communist utopia.

The capitalist nations of the world continue to use their tentacles like the IMF and the world bank to force the global ideology of neoliberalism while the US uses its dominant position to subvert all cultures into liberalism. They wont even tolerate welfare keynsianism capitalism. Look what happened to Greece when radical leftists tried to implement capitalist keynsianism. You think an anarchist movement is going to last 10 days without capitalist hostility?

The problem with anarchism is that it has never ever really wanted power. So when the eventual capitalists come to shut down their project it ends in a massacre for future anarchists to wax poetical about.

As such whilst I admire anarchists and anarchism for its noble goals, they never could've defeated nazi Germany, put the first man into space and the first woman into space or gotten the first satellite into orbit.

I'm of the belief the state will wither away - but that is not going to happen until the world markets are controlled by those espousing a communist/anarchist ideology.

I mean this is a long running dispute I'm sure we've both heard a million times before so ill leave it there with have a good weekend comrade.

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Pop wrote

Cool, I'm not big on arguing on the internet, so I wasn't going to either, but it's been interesting reading what you're saying

I am not sure what you mean about me adding more - it's an unedited post

And I'm geniunely interested in what you mean, since it seems you're assuming I think you can divorce a society from their material conditions. Is your thought that we automatically are ignoring material conditions when we don't sign up for an intermediary state?

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SpiritOfTito wrote

PCE took over catalonia (communist) from the CNT and POEM (also communist) by 1937.

So congrats: An Anarchist group held Catalonia for less than a year before being thrown out.

I must admit my knowledge of Zapatistas is non existent so I need to do some reading.

From their wiki their ideology says neozapatistmo, Zapatismo and libertarian socialism