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shanoxilt wrote

Fuck off to Tumblr with this bullshit. We already have FARTs on this site; there's no need to bring out the rest of the bigots.

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GaldraChevaliere wrote

You're starting with FARTS (please fucking Christ realize this isn't helpful, it's childish and plays down the actual threat they pose, also where? I've seen maybe two in the year I've been here.) and going to bat for literal cishets who are indistinguishable from the average breeder in every conceivable way, but your mogai shit is radical and recognizing that cishets aren't oppressed is tumblr? Please go outside, your people need you.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote (edited )

I've forgotten how our conversation went about this last time, but I have a few thoughts.

I think loads of LGBT people are assimilationist breeders and you give disproportionate disdain to ace people for their participation in that.

Calling ace people "het" in 'cishet' isn't right, same as calling a cisbi person a cishet if they're not hooking up with people of the same gender, for whatever reason.

Sounds like you have a bunch of shitty liberal ace people where you live, but that's not reason to generalise to ace people globally. I know some solid ace people doing radical and queer things.

Given how little queer representation ace people get (much less than the rest of us), it shouldn't be a surprise that more of them lead normative lives, if they do.

Seems to me that queer people would generally want to openly embrace other sexual and gender minorities' weird and find ways to weaponise it against the current order.

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GaldraChevaliere wrote

There are no material oppressions that hetero-attracted cis aces or aros face. It's a simple fact and it's low of you to try to defend them as "kweer" when the person I'm responding to is actively comparing exclusion of our oppressors from a space to TERFism. Name one fucking ace person who's been killed for it. Name one ace person who's lost a job because they don't fuck that wasn't directly a result of misogyny. There are actual LGBT ace people who experience same gender attraction of some form or another and I respect and embrace them, but don't tell me that we should give a shit about literal cishets because they appropriated a queer identity and aesthetic but only ever enter our spaces to attack us.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

Ok, I'll try my best to respond here, to both of your responses to me in this post.

hetero-attracted cis aces

I don't understand how this (attraction + aceness) is possible, and I suspect that we both have quite different frames of reference for ace people. Between everything said around here, I've become quite confused.

All the ace people I know are also aromantic so it seems very different to most of the circumstances described here. Those people have pretty straighforward oppressions. I haven't had much chance to think through whether the oppressions are somehow unique to aceness and separate from misogyny or homophobia but also I don't see these oppressive frameworks as wholly distinct, or (importantly) why they need to be. I'd be super interested to hear more about how you and others understand this.

I meant to address you directly in relation to past things you said and not in relation to the thing you were responding to, because this is a conversation I would like to understand better and I know you have solid queer politics and meaningful things to say generally. But obviously I can see why you would interpret me as engaging you in relation to your response to shanoxilt.

literal cishets because they appropriated a queer identity and aesthetic but only ever enter our spaces to attack us.

One thing that is stunning me a bit is just how much of a problem this seems to be for you, like the situation in the meme is a very regular occurrence. This is unheard of where I am, for example.
How regular must it be for it to be a real concern we have rather than a reason to be troublesome toward ace people? I don't know if it's comparable, but I think about people talking about false rape accusations to discredit rape accusations generally, when false rape accusations only make up a small fraction of accusations. But it did give me this kind of sense.

As a result I read the meme as being a subtle way of digging at ace people generally.

I didn't mean to upset you if I did and am happy to do the work of learning what I did wrong if I have done wrong.

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theheart wrote

In regards to the oppression, I have a simple argument that I use personally; gay people have gotten beat in the streets, and trans women shot to death in my community. Ace people do not face oppression that stands as similar; they are marginalized themselves, but they do not face the same struggle queer people have and do face. I keep bringing up the pink triangle, Stonewall, AIDS, the modern day nations where it's illegal, and the nations where it's legal but you run the risk of getting killed if you go out in public. As far as I'm aware, there are no systematic oppression of comparable scale for being ace alone.

There's no need to strain queer spaces and resources by opening them up to any group that's marginalized; like I said, I'd prefer the idea of having an overarching label including aces, but I don't think cishet aces should be considered queer by any means.

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deathsembrace OP wrote

Calling ace people "het" in 'cishet' isn't right, same as calling a cisbi person a cishet if they're not hooking up with people of the same gender, for whatever reason.

Calling ace people 'het' in 'cishet' is a line I've heard cishet aces use; heteroromantic, asexual. This was what was in mind here; cishet ace people, who face no (so far as I'm aware) material oppression hijacking queer spaces and repressing queer voices.

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sudo wrote

What's a FART? (I'd look it up, but you already know what the results would be.)

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deathsembrace OP wrote

We already have FARTs on this site

Sounds like an issue with the site.

there's no need to bring out the rest of the bigots.

Is it really bigoted to not want cishet people in queer spaces over queer people? That doesn't seem to click with me.

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ziq wrote

Why are you using an alt? What are you scared of?

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ziq wrote

I guess that's hypocritical since I always had to use alts just to talk about anticiv before the discourse was shifted.

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deathsembrace OP wrote

Ace discourse has gotten me thrown out of places in the past, so I decided I'd test the waters with a meme this time.

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ziq wrote

You're "testing the waters" on a politics meme space?

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deathsembrace OP wrote

I wanted to see if it would get me tossed out of Raddle; given the response, its been useful for gauging things.

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