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red_pepper wrote

Also, this is why worker cooperatives > consumer cooperatives. Consumer cooperatives would only strive to make the burger cheaper. They don't care at all about the well-being of workers.


Cartoon_Cat wrote

Do you have any good reading to-hand about this? I've been talking about starting something for a few years now but the fear of trying to meet rent demands and falling into the "business-as-usual" trap puts me off even trying.

I've visited a handful of places that fit a model I like, but it seems the only way they have that freedom is through ownership of the property/land or surviving on donations (of labour and/or money).


tamarack wrote (edited ) -- but that's mostly regular economics

The title was originally the title of a book:

Democracy at Work: A Cure for Capitalism by Richard D. Wolff

Available wherever fine books are sold.


Dumai wrote (edited )

this meme starts from generally ok premises as far as the labour theory of value is considered but i'm a bit concerned by the line "were the worker given the full value of their labour"

the point of the LTV, which is a pretty outdated view of capital, isn't that the capitalist avoids paying the worker "the real value of their labour" in an effort to minimise costs and therefore increase profit margins. the point is that labour power, as the determinant of exchange values, transfers onto commodities its own value as well as creating new value in the production process. by contrast, the exchange value of labour power is determined, as with every other commodity, solely by the necessary cost to reproduce it, which ultimately boils down to socially necessary labour time. the exchange value of labour power is what, by average, it costs in wages to keep a labourer fed and able to work. so there are two views here. firstly, the working class is already paid the full (exchange) value of its labour within capitalist relations. secondly, the working class will never receive the full value their labour adds to commodities in the production process. the law of value dictates this simply isn't how the exchange value of their labour power is determined within a market society (i.e. a society in which the only way to meet material human needs is through commodity exchange), which remains the case no matter how much the worker receives in wages, or whether the enterprise that employs them is privately or socially owned.