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southerntofu wrote

Reply to comment by celebratedrecluse in insurrection by Tonic

From what i understand of appellist propaganda, destitution is a state of personal or collective realization that whatever those in power do, they are despicable and ridiculous to us. We can laugh or cry at their actions but we should not take them too seriously, even though they may end up killing us.

I don't understand much of a difference between "class consciousness" and destitution to be honest. Maybe destitution is an equivalent concept for the bourgeois classes? (Important piece of context: the authors of the invisible committee and their appellist fanboys are elitist people from the higher classes)

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ruin wrote

I don't understand much of a difference between "class consciousness" and destitution to be honest.

Destituency, as I understand it, is about action outside of reference to class as well as any socio-political grouping in order to avoid developing a new constituent power.

But, typically those talking about it drone on about the “under commons” which feels very much like a class oriented space.

I’m with you on the IC and similar being shit revolutionaries, and I’d lump most post/proto marxists in with them. I do think some of their ideas are worthwhile to anarchists because they address the new reality of a technological society in which industrial Marxist analysis is nearly useless. All are now producers AND consumers. Our existence has become an insidious cycle self perpetuating and almost imperceptible.

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_caspar_ wrote

I havent read Agamben, so appreciate the breakdown on destituency. I did like the undercommons years ago, but it might need another visit now that some time has passed, and my perspective changed. Harney and Moten are heavily influenced by Marx, so the class orientation makes sense. what was interesting to me back in the day was their take on black life as anarchic/ungovernable life, and folks attempting ungovernability against but within institutional spaces: the university being their main focus. certainly the book for the disgruntled grad student!

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ruin wrote

certainly the book for the disgruntled grad student!

This seems to be the target audience judging by the interest in Agamben within the university system. I’d imagine Deleuze is the same. I feel left out being old and uneducated.

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_caspar_ wrote

Im day by day getting older and uneducating myself, so I hope to be there at some point!

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ruin wrote

That’s building destituent power!

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celebratedrecluse wrote

Destituency, as I understand it, is about action outside of reference to class as well as any socio-political grouping in order to avoid developing a new constituent power.

So, it resists the ideology to create a contradicting self-organizing sociopolitical grouping, ie, proletariat. It is the marxism of downwardly mobile, bourgeois lumpenproletariat.

I’m with you on the IC and similar being shit revolutionaries, and I’d lump most post/proto marxists in with them.

Well, we haven't been doing too well lately, and a lot of us have very twisted ideologies, so I don't really blame you.

typically those talking about it drone on about the “under commons” which feels very much like a class oriented space.

Academics. The force to be destroyed first

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