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confusedarchist wrote

I don't follow this meme. What are the different strains of labor?

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nadir wrote (edited )

The joke is making fun of the idea that "the negative aspects of work are specific to the sort/type/style/strain of work done under capitalism, and that work under other economic systems (invariably communism) is going to be better, we promise."

So this is an Anti-work meme. Here are some texts on the topic. The essay The Abolition of Work is probably a good start.

Edit: and there is f/antiwork

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confusedarchist wrote

Thank you but I don't understand how society can function without work. If everyone was unemployed, nothing would get done.

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nadir wrote (edited )

The concept of productive play is a replacement for work. An example of functioning productive play is parts of the open source software scene where many great pieces of software are written by programmers who are just doing it for fun.

Edit: Shoutout to u/emma who is the reason we are able to have this chat!

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confusedarchist wrote

So raddle has just renamed work to productive play? What's the point?

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nadir wrote (edited )

Did you read The Abolition of Work that I linked to above? If so, which parts of it did you disagree with? If not, please let me know which parts you disagree with after reading it.

Edit: don't worry if you have issues getting into that text though. Just let me know and we can sort something out.

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transvot wrote

The kind of labor that's the exact same but you're doing it for communists. The People's Amazon Warehouse with red flags everywhere

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confusedarchist wrote

I think that's a little reductive and sensational, if we had a revolution, the first thing we would do is abolish Amazon and democratize its warehouses.

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nadir wrote

As discussed in the other thread*, democracy is not going to stop people from being exploited, dominated, or subjected to authority.

So what would you do instead of democratise the warehouses?

* The other thread: raddle.me/115145
lfbg75wjgi4nzdio.onion/115145

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confusedarchist wrote (edited )

It might not be 100% perfect but it's still the best system we have.

So what would you do instead of democratise the warehouses?

What do you mean instead of?

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nadir wrote

It might not be 100% perfect but it's still the best system we have.

No, anarchy is the best system we have.
Democracy is not compatible with anarchy.

What do you mean instead of?

Well seeing as democracy is not going to achieve anarchy, we will have to do something other that just democratise the warehouses.

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confusedarchist wrote

Why won't democracy achieve it? Democracy and anarchism are the same, power to the people. You can't have anarchism without democracy. Just because raddle says so doesn't mean it's true.

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nadir wrote (edited )

power to the people

There are two issues here:

  1. Democracy can be subverted to "not work like you want it to", let's call this fake democracy.

  2. Democracy, when it does work like you want it to, gives the majority power over the minority. Which as you can probably see is going to end badly in many cases.

\1. "Fake Democracy"

It is often the case in many so called democratic institutions that the democratic system can be controlled by a minority of the members. You probably already know this because it's election season in the "greatest democracy on earth", the USA. So let's move on.

\2. "Real Democracy"

Rule by one person (monarchy) over a majority is bad.

Rule by a minority (oligarchy) over a majority is bad.

Rule by a majority (democracy) over a minority is bad.

Rulers are bad.

You might say that if there was no minority, as in when everyone agrees, then that's good. Which is fine, but that is rarely going to be the case, so people should not be held to the authority of a democratic system, they should be allowed to go and do their own thing if there is no way for everyone to agree, which is often the case.

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ziq wrote (edited )

It's really power to the people with the best and most coercive propaganda, which the recent elections in the US, Brasil, Hungary, UK, Poland, Greece, etc have clearly shown us is always the far right. Democracy is the domain of propagandists with deep pockets. People will always believe the beautiful lie if it allows them to feel safe from the terrible fear manufactured by the same propagandists offering to save them.

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transvot wrote

That's the point lil buddy, that tbe warehouses are still open and people will have to work at them. You ever work a shitty job before? Your back won't care how democratic it is and no amount of meetings about shipping labels will make it any less than absolute drudgery. The work itself is the issue, not who tells me that I need to pick faster so the collective can ship out iphones more efficiently.

Also fuck democracy

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