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closed wrote (edited by a moderator )

Thanks for the references, I haven't read them, but they look interesting. Feel free to dismiss me as a non-expert. I haven't heard many arguments apart from those understandably critical of Antifa violence, and my opinions are just my own observations.

Is physical violence a strategy they are officially adopting, as you have? That would be news to me.

@hectorgrey mentions that they have no intention of debating in good faith - there is no need for you to debate in good faith either, but it seems they are just the better debaters.

As for allowing them to organise and recruit. Sure, they're recruiting at public events, but they're also recruiting on the sly in person, and via a number of online forums, and there's no way to stop that with violence. Having 'violent Antifa thugs' to look down on, and pictures of bleeding comrades helps with their recruiting and solidarity. It's hard to garner sympathy for Nazis, but if they are are assembling peacefully (for now) earnestly showing their faces, and you arrive masked and clad in black with violent intent - it's natural that you'll get outsiders condemning you as the bad guys.

A policy of physical violence clearly has blowback when it comes to PR. Is it worth it? You cannot stop them from organising and recruiting - are you even preventing them from public displays of strength?

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GrimWillow wrote (edited )

Thanks for the references, I haven't read them, but they look interesting.

I'll only be mad if you never read them but keep saying that you're "unconvinced by the arguments" without understanding that non-violence is exactly what they want us to react to their violence with.

Is physical violence a strategy they are officially adopting, as you have? That would be news to me.

I got some news for ya then, they are the ones being violent first. There is a long history of white supremacist misogynist violence taking place on this continent, there is nothing new about their debate for the legitimacy of this violence that continues to this day. If white supremacy or fascism was just them debating and never resulted in violence, Antifa would be more of an organization to make fun of them gently from the sidelines. This is not the case though. Everything from the ignored indiginous holocausts on Turtle Island (that was an inspiration to hitler's holocaust) to the perpetual violence of groups like the kkk.

Having 'violent Antifa thugs' to look down on, and pictures of bleeding comrades helps with their recruiting and solidarity.

Fascism has long been a tool for capitalism, and Anarchists will never be shown in a positive light by capitalists, with secret vicious programs that favor right-wing groups. We can't waste our time trying to win a PR war completely stacked against us and when the facilitators of our message mock and distill our messages into shit no matter what we try to say. For people just looking at the violence happening against the bigoted organizers, and not at the violence they already represent is revolting and naive.

The U.S. is not a safe place for LGBT people, black people, or women.

Here's an example to show you what I mean. Lets say you have two groups, I'll call them Group A and Group B. Group A targets Group B, and considers B to be inferior and must be the slave of A, and does everything from killing, raping, and enslaving people from B for a long long time (to put it lightly). Then people saying that Group A is glorious for all that shit, and many even say they are proudly part of Group A, start parading around together to take over the public space, they get attacked by defenders of Group B. Group A films it and cries that they got attacked for no reason!. Then comes you saying "Yo! Group B! You're making yourselves look bad attacking them for no reason like that!"

No. The violence stops now, by any means necessary there needs to be a cease fire, or people are going to hit back.

*edit: forgot to finish a sentence.