Submitted by lettuceLeafer in mediation (edited )

Context

https://raddle.me/f/AsterismOvershares/149795/-/comment/265177

Thought this isn't the first case. The comment bloodrose deleted was basically telling asterisms that his abusive wife was valid and had good reasons to not let him have friends with women. Though she has made a serious of comments that we let slide. And yeah, this is a community project. If people can go around defending abuse and no one speaks up its on everyone for not keeping raddle a safe space to talk about abuse.

Because like I told bloodrose, plenty of people just watch and don't interact and I know there is at least one and probably more who watched it all go down and see that raddle doesn't give a fuck and won't speak up. So we need to make it up and show some guarantee that in the future people talking about abuse won't be invalidated.

And bloodrose is a well liked and important person on raddle. Its important people spend some emotional energy with her so she cant work through it and think of how to respond. I can't do both. And also I'm not the dictator so people who use raddle should speak up and talk about if they think I"m being fair or out of line. And what will make it right.

If you want to have big talk about consensus you need to actually engage. If you just let me do everything you are nothing more than sheep who follow whatever figurehead is most convincing. And it seems to me no one would have said anything if I didn't.

Edit: if you are genuinely swamped or spend lots of energy in the past you are fine sitting this one out. Yes ziq its cool for you not to take the brunt of the emotional labor for once. Its your site but mediation isn't your sole responsibility and you have spent lots of time in the past.

Here is an achive link https://web.archive.org/web/20221123202118/https://raddle.me/f/AsterismOvershares/149795/-/comment/265177

I'm gonna go sleep lol

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Comments

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asterism wrote (edited )

I probably have lots to say but I have to process for awhile I think.

I will say I feel exactly as Lettuceleafers states. It felt like I was being treated as if I was inherently a cheater when that whole concept is the exact one my wife is trying to use to control me. This was harmful to me. I didnt appreciate it.

I always try to take feminists seriously because I aint always convinced that I have put masculinity in its various forms behind me. I also tried to give bloodrose the benefit of the doubt. But this, as LL mentions, was the last and worst in a series of comments that have invalidated my experience.

I think thats all I can say for now.

I put this here just so you all know LL is NOT putting words/feelings into my mouth

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kinshavo wrote

I don't wanna stir up more this but I believe that you are in good faith here. I would change the title as "perpetuating abuse" is a strong accusation. I always says that my broken English is bad and I mean it, but the words you used don't sit right for what I understood.

Thanks for offering for mediation, but I think in the good faith spirit both parts need to agree on the individual doing the mediation, not sure if they want to go through the process either. As long I am concerned bloodrose erased the problematic comment and tried to apologize more than once, even if one can interpret otherwise.

For the record. I don't feel this as overreacting if people are genuinely emotionally invested in this, I am sorry if I don't went through all the replies there or here as this whole marital issue is triggering as I'm on a similar process myself. And it's not nice to drag other issues that anyone had with bloodrose in the past or dragging Styx to the problem bc of her comment.

For me this isn't a tos break or a banable offense as I understand it was a sincere mistake from bloodrose.

Not sure if I am making sense to anyone with this whole rant

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote (edited )

You are correct I meant to say defending. I don't think blood roses did actual abuse.

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

No you are fine. I think all that has to happen is bloodrose come back. Acknowledges the hurt she caused and make a genuine apology. I don't think it had to be a big issues.

Maybe this might be due to English being your second language but bloodrose response is not an acceptable apology in everywhere I've went in the US. Basically to apologize you need to understand the harm you caused. But bloodrose apology was reflecting that she didn't understand because she said I apologize but I actually didn't cause as much harm as you are making it out to be.

So a good apology sounds like "oh I understand how severe the hurt I caused to you was. Considering your situation I truly regret the massive amount of hurt I caused you. I'm truly sorry for my actions". A big part of an apology being told is there is no but where the person defends themself.

And that's all there is to it really. Bloodrose just had to show she is genuinely sorry and put in some effort and consoling and showing to asterisms that she knows the severity of how much she hurt his feelings and made his horrible situation worse.

Now obviously it being on acident is important as if it was on purpose that would be a different issue. But it's irrelevant to the apology. Apologies are all about catering to the person you hurt. If you apologize but make it about yourself it's not an apology its defending your actions.

And I know bloodrose she is reasonable. That's why I told her to take a break. I know exactly how it is. When people call me out I feel terrible and wanna prove them wrong. I wait a bit and then I see my error and genuinely apologize.

I know bloodrose and she genuinely cares. I'm not too worried. I think she will come back genuinely apologize and I bet asterism will be okay with that. So it should be mostly problem solved.

I think our disagreements are with you maybe not getting the subtext of the apology. But our message is the same. I appreciate your comment. I'm glad you added.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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ziq wrote (edited )

Yes ziq its cool for you not to take the brunt of the emotional labor for once. Its your site but mediation isn't your sole responsibility and you have spent lots of time in the past.

I don't even believe in mediation. No one should have to do emotional labor for strangers, least of all someone with my wildly unstable emotions. We have a block button for a reason.

I can't really tell what happened here because half of it has been wiped and what's left is really hard for me to read through right now because I'm exhausted, but as soon as I saw there was a mediation post yesterday, without even clicking it, I knew it would result in massive parts of the site being erased and valued users lost forever. Always does. It forces people into public collective emotional confrontations they're either unprepared for or unequipped for.

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ziq wrote

But obviously the mediation request always follows a big blow up, it's not the fuse, but it's some of the fuel. It doesn't start the problem, but it does the opposite of solve it.

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wednesday wrote

i wasn't going to wade into this but fuck it:

this was not "mediation", this was just one person making an extremely aggressive demand for another person to do what they wanted, and couching it in the language of mediation to deflect criticism.

i'm not defending the original post(s) (an apology was probably warranted) but it's farcical to look at what happened here and imagine that this is a useful way of resolving or de-escalating conflict.

i think LL is a person who appreciates honest criticism and won't take this comment personally, but yeah this was a fuckup.

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fortifiedmischief wrote

is there an alternative archive link? Can't get this one to work and I'm really interested in what people had to say... because I understand the way in which people's personal stories can trigger reactions in others that might not be easy to trace.

I have to admit, in reading asterisms initial post about the boardgame night, something didn't sit right with me either. It would be nice to get the context of the conversation if poss, to better understand

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

I didn't archive the first deleted post. So the raddle link is the same as the archive

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