Submitted by An_Old_Big_Tree in lobby

You've been around here for a long time. I've gotten to know you, I've learned things with you, I was present in some important ways for some big changes in your life. That means something to me.

I've tried to take responsibility for you as a person that I care about. I've talked with you privately and in the meta chat on a couple occasions in relation to this.

Often, people who you've been antagonistic with have been completely terrible human beings, like Titan. Sometimes they're closer to being just people moving through life like the rest of us.

When I've talked with you, I've really tried to be sensitive to all the relevant things, to try to ask you not to abuse the site. I've explained how your actions affect everyone's experience, and you've acknowledged. There's no-one on this site who we've given so much room to fuck up, to lash out, to do what you need - hoping that you'd give a shit about us and do something about it because I asked.

I don't know why you still do it or if you can stop, but we need you to stop. Aside from so much flooding of the site, harrassing people, and making the site about you, you've also ban evaded and said some ableist things.

I don't have it in me to write a better message than this to you right now. This takes a lot outta me. I'd really like it to convey that I'm genuinely trying here.

This is all to say, I'm doing my best, and this is the last time I'll ask you to stop. I don't want us to have to ban every user we recognise to be you on site, I think that sucks. I'd like it if you could take a break from the site, and come back when you're ready to be a person who only contributes to the space in a way that makes the space better.

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ziq wrote

I agree with everything Tequila said and want to add my own thoughts.

It's super uncomfortable always being put in the position of having to tell off a friend for abusing the site, but you keep putting us there, to the point where it feels like you're holding the whole site hostage.

Some days the entire site is nothing but you attacking everyone in all the top posts, forcing us to spend ages reading through it all to trim away the off topic stuff. When there are no trolls for you to fight, you start targeting the regulars like lori and celebratedrecluse. The attacks have gotten so indiscriminate that you go off on anyone and everyone at the drop of the hat.

We're always getting complaints and are expected to do something about your behavior, but it's like walking on eggshells trying to talk to you. Every time I reluctantly put on my admin hat to try and sort through the shit, you lash out at me and then delete your accounts minutes later. Then you come back with 5 new accounts and it starts all over again.

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An_Old_Big_Tree OP wrote

In response to the things you deleted, which I've been thinking about since:

If people are being transphobic, we have a place where people can let us know that. f/ToSbreaches. I don’t read and shouldn't have to read everything that happens on this site, and I think it's the same for the other admins. Including what happened with DarkArmillary up until that ToSBreaches post. I’m talking instead about what I’ve talked about with you for months, what you’ve acknowledged to me, and what you’ve continued to do despite that. It’s not just transphobes (who must fuck off, and who I do instaban when I see them). I’m aware of the faults of many of the people you attack.

If ToSBreaches isn’t adequate for people, they should let us know, or let me know. If it is, I don’t know that. Let us know before you abuse the space, especially after I’ve asked you repeatedly not to. I really am not asking you to seriously engage TERF bullshit, I’m saying point it out at ToSBreaches it right away, we’ll deal with it as soon as we can. And if you want to engage people about it, do it in a way that doesn’t make the site about you, do it without flooding the place, without forcing people to carry so much just by being on the site.

All that aside, if this was limited to transphobes I wouldn’t have brought it up. Raging at people you don’t like in a space that’s for all of us isn’t ok. Even more than all that, this is about how it affects everybody else. But I feel sure we’ve had this conversation already, I’m just repeating it in direct response to the things you’ve said, and also for whoever else is invested in this.

I told you this was the best I could do, so it sucks you’ve nitpicked me. It doesn’t feel like you tried to take on what I said. I’m out of gas to do this with you for now, and I’m sure I’ve said everything already.

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lori wrote

I wanna say I don't have any harsh feelings towards Clouds as a person, and when clashes aren't ongoing I appreciate her presence. But it often feels like I need to be careful using this site specifically to avoid her ire, because I usually genuinely don't have the will to deal with an immediately overwhelming barrage of those replies.

I've taken part in that myself before, and said things I shouldn't have, so I suppose I can't and won't place all fault on her. But point being, all this in mind she is a cool person and I'd love to see her return having dropped that habit - though, preferably not having dropped the callouts themselves.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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lori wrote

Nevermind.

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[deleted] wrote

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lori wrote

I've already taken it back and I'm pretty sure deleted the posts, and literally acknowledged it was wrong of me in this thread. I'm not sure what else you want out of me. Shall I be cast to the nether realm to never return for my sins?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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lori wrote

I don't expect you to, but what will it take for you to stop doing this at least?

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ziq wrote

I was going to reply to everything you said in this thread when I got home but I see you deleted it all.

The only thing I remember now was you complained I banned all your alts before banning DarkArm, so I'll reply to that.

The whole purpose of the tosbreaches forum is to report tos violators, which you did (sorta, you didn't actually link to anything in the OP). But then you started attacking and mass downvoting people that replied to the post with all your alts, making discussion impossible.

Since you were also openly ban evading, I don't think banning your alts was wrong. I left your main account alone.

Dark was banned a few hours after you made the post, for their "female erasure" comment that alex linked to. I don't really know what else could have been done. You reported someone and they were quickly banned.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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ziq wrote

Is this the spam?

I'm imagining giant galaxy sized quotations around 'spam.'

I don't understand your question. I didn't say anything about spam.

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zoochotic wrote (edited )

Nice of y'all to let clouds harass one last person off the site before finally stepping in. Very cool of you tequila. I don't understand why you've put up with this shit for so long, but better late than never I guess.

Good riddance asshole.

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An_Old_Big_Tree OP wrote

Nice of y'all to let clouds harass one last person off the site before finally stepping in.

The lines coming off that person drew a queerphobic picture.
My impression of them in the few occasions I read their stuff was that they wouldn't last around here but that they would at least provoke some conversation for a while.

I personally would have asked them to explain themself and banned them based on that but I'm completely fine with how that went down, and there's always some variation in how the admins do things and that's always been fine with me. I still think clouds should have brought it to our attention sooner, so ideally there wouldn't have been as much strain, but that doesn't vindicate DarkArmillary.

Very cool of you tequila.

Not sure why you're being this way about it.

I don't understand why you've put up with this shit for so long, but better late than never I guess.

I'd like if one day you did understand.

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zoochotic wrote

I don't think he would have lasted long either, but that's not that point. Why is this being decided by clouds harassing him & borderline vandalizing this site for a week? This isn't a one-off, it's a pattern with clouds. If he was an obvious transphobe, why did no one else request a ban for a week? Why is there no real evidence? Why didn't mofongo ban them a week ago? There's no bigotry in his posts, there's just a lot of complaining about language policing & tone. It was a huge thread, everyone read it, no one else seemed to see what clouds did. People weren't outraged by his posts right off the bat, annoyed for sure, but no one else was accusing him of being a TERF.

Clouds (thinks she) sees the slightest hint of something and harasses him all week, repeats over and over that he's a TERF, then puts in a ban request with zero evidence and that's that. Then this thread gets made, everyone here agrees clouds is abusive and manipulative, but somehow that ban is just taken at face value?

Not sure why you're being this way about it.

Is that really not obvious? I've discussed gender on this site plenty of times, and people agree with me. I have all the "correct" opinions; but clouds get it in her head that I'm transphobic and now she just replies to me with the same two sentences over and over again, with things I never even said.

I don't understand why y'all don't see thru her bullshit & manipulative politicking? Or if you do, why you decide to give her a pass? We all have to walk on eggshells and read this shit, why, so this one asshole can avoid going to therapy or something?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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zoochotic wrote (edited )

Hey, I need therapy too, most people do. But especially you.

But whatever, feel free to play the "wah I'm so oppressed" card as usual when you need to deflect away from your shitty behavior.

Anyways, I unblocked you for this thread, but I'll just go back to ignoring you now. Talking to you is the biggest waste of time.

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mofongo admin wrote

Not off the site, DarkArmillary would have been banned anyways. Transphobia is against the terms of use.

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zoochotic wrote

Oh fuck off, no he wouldn't have. Clouds harassed him for days on the thinnest of pretenses. If 9 alts hadn't been calling him a transphobe for a week there's no way that would have stuck.

But whatever, pretend clouds didn't manipulate you if you want, I don't care as long it's stopped now.

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mofongo wrote

This is not a democracy, people can't vote who to ban. I do. I read all the comments and made my decision. The only thing wrong is not noticing before the /f/TOSbreaches thread.

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lori wrote (edited )

If 9 alts hadn't been calling him a transphobe for a week there's no way that would have stuck.

It's immediately obvious he was being transphobic to... anyone who read into the posts and has experiences with transphobia. Clouds only highlighted it. And good for that, because it seems it's invisible to cis people so often.

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