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celebratedrecluse wrote

According to whom?

Uh, me? I'm the one talking, I explained specifically why this word comes across to me as ableist, with what I think is a pretty solid line of reasoning. You're the one invalidating this and linking me a fucking dictionary definition, what a lazy appeal to authority and casual/unsupported erasure of descriptivist science. And now, you try to flip the script on me with this petty jab, as if you hadn't just engaged in the very same logical fallacy? Again, your behavior comes across to me as gaslighting, which I'm pretty much razor sensitive to the last few weeks after dealing with a bunch of that IRL from multiple privileged fucks. Perhaps you can relate to that, and how shitty it feels when you're on the business end of that behavior. Please take time to reflect on what I'm saying in this thread, because I'm disengaging after this message.

So are you saying that bigots and despicable ideas and their products can't be compared to shit?

Uh, no. I'm saying you shouldn't defend the denigration of someone on the merit of their brainpower, because ironically it makes you the bigot. You can't insult someone's brain/mind without being ableist, and "head" is clearly a synecdoche for the former, as seen in the word "shithead". Am I not allowed to express that a word you suggested was not ableist actually is, just because it makes you feel self-conscious that you didn't realize it? Does it feel good, doubling down on this?

I don't even know how you are arguing this right now, it's so ridiculous because I was literally just adding an aside to your initial premise, not challenging it.

to cancel it.

Re-read the comment & your own response. I was adding to your point, you are getting defensive after being told your alternative suggestion might be problematic too. As far as I can tell, you would only react this way if the reason why you are posting in the first place is to exert social power over others, so my original comment which clearly supports your premise but disagrees slightly and politely with a specific conclusion comes across to you as an attack instead. I'm calling you out on this firmly now-- you're being manipulative, and using the discourse of social justice to accumulate social power over others, even if it means defending a word as "definitely not ableist" when someone is telling you they feel it might be. It's disappointing as fuck to me, and pretty apparent to others reading this.

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n_n wrote

Uh, me?

Who the fuck are you? When I ask for your condescending opinion?

ironically it makes you the bigot.

Lol, nice reverse discrimination meme.

I think is a pretty solid line of reasoning

I don't give a fuck about your shitty reasoning. The Oxford and the Merriam–Webster dictionary support what I already said, your opinion is baseless and I give a flying fuck about it.

you're being manipulative

You are who is commenting me with you baseless opinions and try to make look a mental disable like an ableist. Like if I need people to tell me what ableism is.

exert social power over others

lol, yeah asking people to not use words that discriminate me and those like me is about power. What next? Trans people here calling out transphobia is also about accumulate social power? XD

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n_n wrote (edited )

The A Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English: https://books.google.com/books?id=KT-cAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA273

The Oxford dictionary states:

Shit-head, an objectionable person. 1971 J. Michener in Reader's Digest Apr. 240 Again the girls were particularly abusive, taunting the guards, calling them ‘shit-heads’, ‘half-ass pigs’. 1979 P. Niesewand Member of Club viii. 56 You lying shithead!

It's a variant of "shit-face". The use as lack of intelligence it's not present in the original meaning of the word.

Edit: also the Online Etymology Dictionary states the same.

I'm already move on about this issue.

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ziq wrote

You haven't moved on.. you keep quoting a British dictionary to justify continuing to use an ableist slur after attacking someone for using another ableist slur. I can give you 100 sources that say it means 'stupid' or similar, so what's the point of linking to a different definition? Do you only accept the authority of the British Oxford dictionary and reject all other sources? Why?

Edit: also the Online Etymology Dictionary states the same.

That source doesn't even have a definition.

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n_n wrote (edited )

a British dictionary

? I also linked the Merriam–Webster and the Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English

The Oxford dictionary gives examples with dates.

That source doesn't even have a definition.

It's for etymologies, the year of origin, 1961, is the same that the others.

The Collins dictionary uses foolish: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/shithead

Stuart Berg Flexner states: "Then in the 1870s, such terms as 'to fall in the shit' (to get in trouble) and the exclamation 'shit and corruption!' were recorded. Also in wide use between the 1870s and the 1890s were such seemingly modern terms as 'shit' and 'bullshit' meaning 'nonsense, rubbish, lies' (chicken shit' and 'horse shit' were recorded in the 1930s); 'the shits,'' diarrhea' ' hit pot' and 'shit face,' both referring to a contemptible person (followed by 'shit head' around 1915); 'to shit on someone,' to treat someone badly; and 'to beat the shit out of' someone. https://books.google.com/books?id=YelbTwLjnbEC&dq=both+referring+to+a+contemptible+person+(followed+by+'s+h+i+t+head'+around+1915)&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=shithead

to justify continuing to use an ableist slur

When I justified the use of any ableist slur?

after attacking someone for using another ableist slur

Which ableist slur? In what moment I attacked someone here for using an ableist slur?

reject all other sources

I didn't reject any source and I said if that word is a problem suggest another one. What I researched didn't point that and still any sources that have been presented gave me a better background of the word that those that I gave.

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ziq wrote

When I justified the use of any ableist slur?

What exactly do you think you're doing right now quoting dictionaries to me to defend your promotion of an ableist slur after I showed you other authoritative dictionaries that clearly equate it with ableism?

Which ableist slur? In what moment I attacked someone here for using an ableist slur?

Click "Parent" a few times on your comment.

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n_n wrote (edited )

What do you think you're doing by harassing a mental disable? You really seems to like to abuse vulnerable people, you are disgusting.

I'm nor defending nor promoting nothing, I suggested a word based in the sources that I presented and those who you presented doesn't contradict what I already said, that the original meaning was not ableist and there is not something accepted that is ableist since different dictionaries had different definitions, those that you presented focus in the modern definitions of words since they focus in the practical meaning of word with it’s use in sentence. A suggestion is a proposal, I proposed a word according to my limited knowledge, you can take it or not. So as I said you can suggest other word but both of you didn't, why?

Click "Parent" a few times on your comment.

I clicked parent to the my first comment and I don't see stacking anyone for using an ableist slur. You just want to bully me. So go and fuck your self. I'm under a lot in real life and my mind can't deal with this shit.

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ziq wrote (edited )

You attacked someone for telling you the word you proposed was also ableist. You showed that you don't actually care about questioning ableist language by refusing to accept that your alternative word is also ableist.

I'm not "bullying" you. If I don't speak up when someone is being toxic like this, then I'm part of the problem. I'm sick of everyone ragequitting the site because of the toxic atmosphere and vicious attacks over minor disagreements.

You told someone not to use a word because it's abeist, told them to use another word. They told you that word was ableist also. So you attacked them, refused to accept it was ableist, linked them to less-developed definitions to try and silence them and now are calling me a bully and accusing me of "harassing a mentally disable" for linking you to more developed definitions.

This shows it's a petty power game for you, labeling anyone that has a slight disagreement with you a bigot and a bully to try and get the upper hand. It's toxic.

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n_n wrote (edited )

You are lying again and keep harasing me despite that I told you that I want to be left alone. You are a fucking bully piece of shit. I'm not feeling well mentally and you keep attacking and misrepresenting me.

You attacked someone for telling you the word you proposed was also ableist.

I didn't attack anyone for that, I asked why they give me an unsolicited advice, I had the feeling that it was condescending and I was correct according with their response, they are who attacked me for not take well their unsolicited opinion. At any moment I said that it's not ableist, I said that it's was not its original meaning, I meant "contemptible" and any other word that means the same would work. I didn't knew it as an ableist word and there were not sources presented by Cluster. I said that if it is problematic both of you could suggested other word but you didn't. Again why? Because you don't give a fuck about disable people or challenge ableist language. You are even defending the use of the word "moron", an eugenic term in other post.

more developed definitions.

? You said "I showed you other authoritative dictionaries that clearly equate it with ableism". I show you authorative dictionaries that clearly don't, so there is not something accepted yet. Why your sources are more authoratives that mine? How are more "developed? Who is trying to silence who? Your sources doesn't cancel mines nor contradict nothing that I already stated, as I said. You are inventing things because you are a fucking piece of shit that want to smear me.

I'm under a lot of mental suffering right now and you keep harass me despite of it. This is not the first time that you do this, so you are a fucking bully. Go fuck yourself.

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ziq wrote (edited )

I never defended the use of the word 'moron'. I just told a troll that no one called them a 'moron'. I waited 8 days to reply so please don't accuse me of bullying you again.

Why your sources are more authoratives that mine?

The point is that no sources are authoritative. Placing value on a list of synonyms in a dictionary is a mistake. Synonyms are replacements for words. Not every synonym for an ableist word has an ableist history. Words like shithead can easily be considered ableist if used to denigrate someone's intelligence. But they can also be used as a generic insult like 'dickhead'. It depends on context and intent.

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n_n wrote (edited )

My mental health is in bad shape right now so I won't going to talk with anybody in the internet until I feel better.

Edit: u/Ziq, just to clarify my mental health is deteriorating because things that are happening to me outside of the internet.

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n_n wrote

I was literally just adding an aside to your initial premise, not challenging it.

If you were a little more aware you would saw that cowards bigots downvoted my first comment the instant that I posted it. You are implying something that I never stated with a personal conclusion that is not the meaning of the word at all. If you have a problem with the word them suggest another one. I'm done with it.

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