Submitted by mouse in lobby

So I've been an anarchist for a while now, been a leftist for most of my life, but a lot of times I can't tell where anarchists stand on gender. I would consider myself a gender abolitionist, but I know that some anarchists find that to have a TERF connotation. But without gender, couldnt we all just do and dress and fuck (or not fuck, for the asexuals out there) whoever we want?

A couple months before I discovered anarchism, I went through a period of very heavily questioning my gender identity, questioning if I was queer/nonbinary or even trans. I was trying on makeup, wearing leggings, painting my nails etc. It was honestly a painful time but one day it just stopped.

I've also had questions about my sexuality (I'm like 99% sure I'm biromantic but I have a longterm girlfriend so it doesn't really matter) and I had a huge crush on a guy-friend when I was younger.

Anyway, do you guys think we should just do away with gender? Or is it better to keep gender as a spectrum? Gender is just one of those anarchist concepts that I don't quite get yet... I havent done enough reading the way I have on the basic economic/social concepts. Hoping you guys can help me out.

btw I'd prefer not to talk that much more about my questioning phase. The only person I've talked to about it is my girlfriend, who later told me she probably wouldnt stay with me unless I was a cis man... which I guess I am, but it still broke my heart a little bit. She is still wonderful and my best friend, but shes totally straight so i get her preferences. My parents could definitely tell what was going on too, but they're both center-right Christians and not very accepting of LGBTQ folks. There are just some aspects of my life that make me feel very alone.

okay thats it thanks all

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

I'm trans af and abolitionist.

If you're anarchist and want to think more on these lines you can read baedan. It's a good starting point towards smashing these things.

It's also a very pretty book if you have the option to buy it.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

I have many ideas, but I am not as well read in theory as other people, so it is hard for me to avoid misunderstandings and miscommunications when expressing myself to other people who have read more. I also think that my ideas could become more fully fleshed out if I engage more with gender abolition theory. Thank you for the recommendation!

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AgitatedStatesOfAmazement wrote

When TERFs talk about abolishing gender, they're just using it as a convenient prepackaged way to shit on trans people for "enforcing gender roles", when in reality they're the ones who enforce gender roles meanwhile trans people bend and dilute them. Gender abolition is a good thing, it just ends up having a slightly TERFy look because of the fact that TERFs use it as a dogwhistle.

It's like how individual liberty is in fact a good thing, but if you go in the streets holding a picket sign demanding the government not infringe on your rights a lot of people will assume you voted for Ron Paul and just want to be legally allowed to shoot black people who walk on the sidewalk near your house.

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Faolinbean wrote

The thing about the radical libertarian feminist view of abolishing gender is that in it, having no gender and having a spectrum of every gender expression imaginable are the same thing. We're not trying to abolish gender in that those characteristics disappear, we're trying to abolish it in the sense that gendered characteristics are currently limited by gender roles when they should be open to anyone

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urg3t0ki11r151ng wrote

I am a cis gay male. I have no strong opinion on this either way, and am aware that because I am a cis gay male it allows me to have no strong opinion on this. I have no problem with transgender/intersex/genderqueer folk and would readily fight along with them for equal treatment and respect in society. If that means the abolishment of genders as a whole that is fine with me.

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mouse OP wrote

cool. That's where I'm at too. I dont really think its up to me to decide at the end of the day.

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jaidedctrl wrote

I mean... I don't know if we can do away with gender. I don't know if it really exists outside of our social structures or not.

Is it purely environmental, psychological? Or is there something physiological to it? There was that study showing that trans people tend to have brain characteristics that are closer to their identified genders'-- could those differences determine gender identity? If gender is entirely environmental, then how can we explain gender dysphoria? Could it be that trans people have an identity they latched onto at a young age, correlating sex and gender roles, thus giving them the dysphoria they later develop? Or is it physiological, something that couldn't have been helped at all? I guess both could hypothetically manifest in the same way, right? So how can we even know for sure?...

I'm trans, and I've got no idea what the hell's going on. I've read a lot on gender in my days, and I'm still questioning it. I've been thinking about it a lot, especially recently. I'm kind of trying to logically justify my existence to myself.

Anyone have any thoughts to share on this-- Is gender "brain-sex", or is it environmental?

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mouse OP wrote

If gender is entirely environmental, then how can we explain gender dysphoria?

maybe dysphoria is more of a social response than a biological one?

Could it be that trans people have an identity they latched onto at a young age, correlating sex and gender roles, thus giving them the dysphoria they later develop?

maybe, but im no expert. I do have a friend (who was born male) that knew she was a girl from the time she was a toddler. But then again, I have another acquaintance (who was born female) who had to hit puberty before he discovered that he was a boy.

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jaidedctrl wrote

maybe dysphoria is more of a social response than a biological one?

Hmm... dysphoria exists because we created gender, rather than dysphoria existing because gender exists. That would make sense. I mean, I've only ever had gender dysphoria, I've never really had genital dysphoria, so I can't comment on that-- but mine has, at least, been about how people see me. I couldn't stand interacting with people and them seeing me as a guy. That's definitely very social in nature.

But that doesn't explain trans people with genital dysphoria-- that is very physical, and very physiological. Some trans men say they feel like there ought to be something down there, outside of socialization. Or maybe they feel that way because of socialization..?

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Majrelende wrote

As a nonbinary person, I would love to exist without having to worry about people not giving people like me the basic right to define oneself. Luckily, most people I know have been accepting with it, but there are some exceptions.

I personally feel that gender is far too prevalent in society, and this creates an environment in which transgender people (and even LGBTQIA+ people in general) suffer from frivolous evils which manifest themselves through relations in society. While gender and transgender issues are a great problem in our current society, much of this is caused by the social separation of gender; if society stopped recognising it, many issues would go away, as the causes of them would be gone. This is not to say that we should not respect LGBTQIA+ people. While gender may be socially nonexistent, people will still need respect based on their choices. For example, if someone needs hormones, they will take them, as nothing in an anarchist society should prevent them from doing what they need to do.

Furthermore, it seems that a genderless society would give transgender people more freedom, as they would not need to make changes as drastic as they would in a gendered society, and any changes they would make would go much more smoothly, as there would be no assumptions or pseudo-permanent identities to deal with during transition; as you were saying, in a society following the spirit of anarchism, people should be able to do and wear what they would like, regardless of its (previous?) gender connotations.

Talking about gender can be very confusing, as no one, in my understanding, actually knows exactly what it is, even if some people purport to. When we stop looking at it, it seems to stop existing, but when we look at it, it starts to become very real. Despite all of this, the thing we can know is that the problems created by it do have solutions, even if the solution appears to be like moving a hill.

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rot wrote

Eliminating gender as a serious category would be nice but there is gender as a concept in society at large so I don't see it happening soon.

For now labeling gender a spectrum and allowing people to identify as they like is the best we can do. Labels can help people discover their identity since heteronormality is pushed so hard.

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