Goodbye, Dale

Submitted by Copenhagen_Bram in lobby

They were once a part of this community. They posted memes, commented, voted. They were a great leftist, and also loved free software. They loved lisp and emacs, and posted a lot to /f/lisp.

And then /u/ziq confessed to using alts and misusing them. It was an awful thing to do, but you don't see Mark Zuckerberg apologizing for making Facebook into an addictive, depressing, proprietary surveillance engine, do you?

Since then, Dale, aka /u/365degrees has been calling out Ziq, accusing them of harrassing people and continued usage of alts.

There's nothing wrong with using alts. I'm sure plenty people have a few. We also use shared accounts. As for vote manipulating, I can think of only two solutions: Force users to only have one account that's verified with their email and phone number, or not take votes too seriously. Remember when someone used a vote cannon to downvote a few trolls to <-100?

I believed them for a while. I believed that ziq has been a dictator for Raddle. I even believed that they had harrassed me. I joined in their pointless hatred of Ziq. And I think a few others joined in, too.

When Ziq proposed to ban /u/365degrees (and /u/GNU_PONUT, whose account is owned by them now), I thought "Oh no! They're trying to get rid of the dissenters! They're brainwashing Raddle into believing that my friends are evil vandals trying to shut down the glorious leader!" So I opposed the ban. I said their only crime was disagreeing with you.

Ziq of course responded quite angrily. I used to believe this was harassment, but I now realize it was all in response to my hostility towards them.

I decided to think about the situation for quite a while. And I realized... I had no proof of the accusations towards Ziq. In fact, a lot of it was unfalsifiable claims. I couldn't even see Ziq harassing anybody. However, there was one thing I could see... that /u/365degrees and others (including me) were constantly calling them out for these claims. And I realized that even if these claims were true, harassing Ziq about it will make absolutely no difference. The sensible solution would be to create a new site that's hosted by someone else. And hope they don't try to rule it with an iron fist. And hope that that site doesn't become an echo chamber for Ziq hate.

We claimed that Ziq was harassing people and for that we harassed them. We altered the wikis and fought over the channels. Some of us doxxed Ziq. And they say it's not doxxing because it was oh-so easy for them to find Ziq's personal information and previous usernames with some vigorous searching. But why did Ziq's name and location matter at all under the circumstances? What are you gonna do, go visit their house and kill them??? Uncover all of their dark, sinister past??

And I for one believed the hate in the name of anarchy. I believed that all hierarchies were wrong, and that I would not just stand by and let Ziq dictate Raddle, I would rebel.

But it's pointless. If I don't like Ziq owning Raddle then I can always find some other site to post to. Maybe it's okay to have small hierarchies, as long as they don't exploit you, and as long as you can easily escape it if it does exploit you.

I decided that Dale was wrong to constantly bother Ziq. I decided that even if they were right, I'd rather see Ziq be a dictator than see Raddle torn apart by drama, and that there are better solutions to their problems. I decided that maybe they were wrong and Ziq was right. And I didn't like Ziq being angry with me. So... I voted to ban them.

And now they're gone. They will no longer post to /f/lisp, no longer post memes, and they will no longer protest against Ziq's potential continued misuse of alts. And they might not be as close to me as they once were. I think Ziq is quite a bit less angry with me, and relieved that I've stopped protesting against them.

Everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes we make mistakes in groups. Sometimes all our options are mistakes, because either way someone will be unhappy. Or maybe we're not experienced enough yet to realize the option that's best for everyone. So... I hope that we can all learn from our mistakes.

Also, please don't harass people.

Before their departure /u/365degrees inserted a bit of extra code into the theme on this subforum:

.nav__logo::before {
    content: "Goodbye, ";}

So now the top of the page says "Goodbye, Raddle".

Goodbye, Dale. I hope Raddle can make it without you.

Lastly, I'd like to thank /u/noordinaryspider for helping me understand Ziq's perspective, and being friends with both of us.


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emma wrote

Bye, Dale. Maybe one day you and GNU_PONUT will learn that constantly antagonising people is 1) boring as shit, 2) going to have negative reactions and reading your responses to those is also boring as shit, and 3) not worth losing friends over.


noordinaryspider wrote

Thanks, Bram. That was beautifully written and I hope Raddle is able to move on now.


ziq wrote (edited )

A reminder that this 'dictator' thing all started because I called gnu an anarcho-imperialist on the matrix for saying they would invade my country and take our resources by force to build their 'transhumanist utopia' if we didn't give it up voluntarily. The moment I called them that name, they started stalking me, calling me a dictator who needed to be 'destroyed', creating divisions, and all 4 of them in the pony clique have been attacking me and the site ever since.

This has been about the pettiest bullshit imaginable since the start and I really, really hope this is finally the end of it.


Dumai wrote

who the fuck calls like, an admin on a tiny internet forum a "dictator" anyway

that's sub-libertarian levels of discourse


surreal wrote

That's what happens when you have too much free time and a sociopathic personality.

Good riddance