-7

Goodbye Raddlers

Submitted by dele_ted in lobby (edited )

I'm taking off. Raddle is no longer a space where i feel comfortable. To whom it may concern, here's why:

I'm tired of the "us against them" mentality. I've though a lot about it, I've read a lot on the topic, and I've come to realize something: dividing an otherwise strong community based on something as ridiculous as skin colour is wrong, no matter what. We should not pay attention to characteristics that one are born with - they are out of our control, and should not matter in a social context at all. Of course there are those that want skin colour to be a core concept in socialization; there are those that think skin colour somehow translates to a difference in personality or other characteristics and abilities. I do not want to associate with these people.

We are not in a war of whites against blacks, or anything else in that ballgame. We are in a war of those that oppress against those that do not. I want to see the end of all oppression, especially that which is based on characteristics that are out of our control. I will not support your efforts to divide the proletariat even further.

Some people won't even bother to think twice about this post. To you, I'm a white supremacist, queerphobe, racist, oppressor and god knows what else. On the other hand there's those that feel what I feel, and see what I see. To them: do yourself a favor and leave this place alone. There's nothing left of value here. The administrators are blinded by the power they hold, and are very clearly not aware of how to hold it with care. The awesome community I fell in love with 6 months ago, that helped me abandon old principles and learn new ones; there's nothing left of it.

To those that used to make this place special, those that do not want to abuse power positions to achieve absolute uniformity and shape a perfect echo-chamber, thank you for all you've taught me.

"variety, conflict even, is life and... uniformity is death" - Kropotkin

Comments

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9

kore wrote

dude if racism didn't exist none of us would be making jokes about white genocide but it does so we do

-1

[deleted] wrote

9

Dumai wrote (edited )

incorrect, jews in nazi germany/under nazi occupation were not considered white and by downplaying this you're making the reasons the holocaust happened unnamable

3

kore wrote (edited )

"white" is a historical category, it does not apply to all places or times. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who calls holocaust or holodomor victims "white." Genocide is also a very specific term, and I cannot think of a historical instance where genocide against white LGBT or disabled people was perpetrated, but maybe I just don't know of it.

-1

[deleted] wrote

6

Dumai wrote (edited )

i'm part jewish and the descendant of holocaust victims and i would definitely identify as white; my ancestors who suffered under the nazis certainly did not. and the nazis didn't consider them white either. this is what kore means by calling "white" a historical category -- whiteness as an identity accessible to some jews only really happened in the latter half of the 20th century

8

emma wrote

dividing an otherwise strong community based on something as ridiculous as skin colour is wrong, no matter what

Have you any idea how ridiculous it is to draw parallels between racism and what happened here? You are downplaying actual, systemic racism. This is an example of the low-key bigotry I'm talking about.

No one is calling for the community to be divided by factors like skin colour or sexuality. Rather, you are calling for unity between those who fight against this division and the bigots who spit in their faces. Fuck unity with bigots.

7

Pop wrote

you thinking that this won't make sense to most of us is pretty patronising

like you have special enlightenment, and like it couldn't possibly be you who's the asshole here

like we haven't had to deal with people just like you in our own lives many times before, and like we don't have long-established ways of recognising your oppressive behaviour

now stop quoting loooong dead old white guys and go read a diversity of people in the world today, brosef, then you can talk about variety

1

dele_ted wrote

It's not like that at all, I can see how it might come across as that though. There's a lot of people here who have simply refused to try to understand what I meant, which is what I'm referring to. I regret typing that now, actually, I'll edit it out.

Kropotkins ideas are still very relevant.

3

ziq wrote

Kropotkin: STOP BEING RACIST TO WHITE PEOPLE YOU BLACK ASSHOLES!!!

6

Tequila_Wolf wrote

"We should not pay attention to characteristics that one are born with - they are out of our control, and should not matter in a social context at all." Liberal colour blindness also?

You're a living cliché of a class reductionist. You also have consistently been and are completely tone-deaf in your understanding of people's critiques of you.

Good riddance. And if other people here agree with them and are unwilling to genuinely try to understand what so many people have been saying here, please leave also.

btw, dellitsni, you should scroll down to the bottom of the anarchism subreddit. That's one of the things they get right.

4

amongstclouds wrote

I don't think you are any of these things, but I do think you're taking these jokes to seriously. I make jokes about yt all day long and I'm white. I'm trans and will make fun of the cis so long as I am unable to feel safe in most spaces because part of these jokes help to take the power of oppressors away.

You cannot be racist against white people. You may be looking for the word prejudice, which doesn't take into account the power held by the oppressor themselves.

6

amongstclouds wrote (edited )

Though I disagree with the class war claim. This is a social war. The destruction of Capitalism in no way guarantees liberation for anyone, and this is something that needs to be seriously considered in the fight against exploitation.

3

dele_ted wrote

As i explained to Belsima, that came off horribly black-and-white. I probably should have either not mentioned it, or went very in-depth with it. I'll edit it out. I don't want to ignore these issues or put them in the back-seat at all, quite the opposite. I do think that class is the number one priority, but that doesn't mean social issues should be ignored at all - and just like that, we are all so different.

1

md_ wrote

I do think that class is the number one priority, but that doesn't mean social issues should be ignored at all - and just like that, we are all so different.

Implied in that is that only one thing can be top priority at a time. This premise is false. We can work on more than one issue at the time, and as a matter of fact, we do.

2

DokiDokiLove wrote

Lol, you can be racist to anyone of any race.

To link it to some pyramid of perceived power is so stupid. For one, there is no racial power pyramid. For two, what happens in the middle of your "can't be racist pyramid of power?"

Let's say for arguments sake, it's White

Japanese

Brazilian

Slav

Indian

So by your measure, Slavs cannot be racist towards Japanese or Brazilians.

And how do you sort the 'black' races in this pyramid? (Note plural)

It makes no sense. Racism is racism and it's ugly.

And just in case you get confused, feel free to tell me where the Jewish race sits in your power pyramid.

Is a Japanese Nazi, calling for Jewish genocide, not racist now?

If a white Nazi, perceives the Jew's to have power over him (which they often do), then by your logic, his hatred and bigotry towards the Jewish race, is not racism.

0

DokiDokiLove wrote

Lol, you can be racist to anyone of any race.

To link it to some pyramid of perceived power is so stupid. For one, there is no racial power pyramid. For two, what happens in the middle of your "can't be racist pyramid of power?"

Let's say for arguments sake, it's White

Japanese

Brazilian

Slav

Indian

So by your measure, Slavs cannot be racist towards Japanese or Brazilians.

And how do you sort the 'black' races in this pyramid? (Note plural)

It makes no sense. Racism is racism and it's ugly.

And just in case you get confused, feel free to tell me where the Jewish race sits in your power pyramid.

Is a Japanese Nazi, calling for Jewish genocide, not racist now?

If a white Nazi, perceives the Jew's to have power over him (which they often do), then by your logic, his hatred and bigotry towards the Jewish race, is not racism.

0

DokiDokiLove wrote

Lol, you can be racist to anyone of any race.

To link it to some pyramid of perceived power is so stupid. For one, there is no racial power pyramid. For two, what happens in the middle of your "can't be racist pyramid of power?"

Let's say for arguments sake, it's White

Japanese

Brazilian

Slav

Indian

So by your measure, Slavs cannot be racist towards Japanese or Brazilians.

And how do you sort the 'black' races in this pyramid? (Note plural)

It makes no sense. Racism is racism and it's ugly.

And just in case you get confused, feel free to tell me where the Jewish race sits in your power pyramid.

Is a Japanese Nazi, calling for Jewish genocide, not racist now?

If a white Nazi, perceives the Jew's to have power over him (which they often do), then by your logic, his hatred and bigotry towards the Jewish race, is not racism.

3

md_ wrote

I'm sorry to see you leave this way. You are extremely resistant to the idea of systemic racism, and that frustrates a lot of people, similar to how you probably are frustrated when you have to deal with people who cannot grasp the idea of systemic wealth disparity.

I don't know if we would have been able to have a more open discussion if there weren't any threats of banning and use of (adequately descriptive, but emotionally loaded) words like "racism" and "queerphobic". It's my assumption that it would be, but I might be wrong. Maybe time and life experience are required.

In any case, sorry it has come to that (but I'm glad it wasn't a ban at least), but it is not because class reductionism is correct. And the issue of moderation remains an issue, but that doesn't mean your comments weren't indeed problematic.

3

ziq wrote

White fragility is all kinds of funny.

3

Fossidarity wrote

I'm sad to see you go. I'm sad that this topic/discussion didn't bring the best out of you and the community but instead divided you.

I hope that Raddle inspired you. I hope that you will remain a comrade.

I don't judge you on these issues because I'm not that well versed in them, but I feel that it still would be wise to listen to what the community has to say. I don't think T_W and the others "calling you out" want to single you out, I think they want to teach you something.

2

dele_ted wrote

It did without a doubt, I'm happy to have been a part of everything here for as long as it lasted.

I've listened closely to what they're saying, and I've learned a lot from all of this too.

2

____deleted____ wrote

No war but class war.

Note that even in the Free Territory, minorities suffered greatly under what was ultimately an anarchist system; we must still take into account the conflict of prejudices.

The administrators are blinded by the power they hold, and are very clearly not aware of how to hold it with care.

Such is the nature of power. Now, it is direct, but it was the same under Ziq, and it will always be the same.

1

dele_ted wrote

To clear up what i meant with the "no war but class war" statement: I simply don't want this to be a war between comrades at all. I want it to be a war between those that oppress and those that do not. I want class war to come first, but I sure as hell don't think we should ignore these very important issues, too. They don't have to "take a back seat" so to speak. I should have went more in-depth with that in my post (or just not mentioned it at all), since it seems pretty black-and-white up there.

2

ConnieCommie wrote

To clear up what i meant with the "no war but class war" statement: I simply don't want this to be a war between comrades at all.

kiddo if you think i'll willingly side with "marxist" TERFs you got another thing comin

0

DokiDokiLove wrote

As a long time lurker, I 100% get your point.

I had high hopes for raffle, but this site is a joke.

I've seen so many posts like yours.

The admins should just do raddle a favour and give it to someone with integrity.

If you want to have only your own views on a site, start a WordPress

0

dele_ted wrote

I don't know what will happen to Konsent. Maybe surreal will take over for a while, that's up to them. Maybe I'll keep developing, but I don't see what would motivate me. If I do decide to keep working on it, it's up to you all to implement it and get it to work with Raddle.