zombie_berkman wrote
Reply to comment by nuvpr in Friday Free Talk by ThreadBot
I mean it more or less boils down to dont be doucher, except its more verbose
nuvpr wrote
I get the "don't be a douche" part, it's the other thought-crime stuff I don't get... Like what is heterosexism and cisgenderism exactly? Is being hetero/cis a crime now? And what kind of content "promotes the patriarchy"? And if white supremacy is banned then why isn't the supremacy of other races banned as well?
Doesn't this count as racism and this count as black supremacy? Look at the sidebar of the latter, "being a douche" doesn't begin to describe that shit. And those are only the forums I could find on the front page where they were featured! Who knows what else resides on this website.
red_pepper wrote
Like what is heterosexism and cisgenderism exactly? Is being hetero/cis a crime now
They're forms of bias and discrimination, not just being hetero or cis. Things like misgendering people or not respecting their sexual orientation, that kind of thing.
And what kind of content "promotes the patriarchy"?
Harassing women for nudes, using sexist slurs, posting redpill/incel propaganda, ect.
And if white supremacy is banned then why isn't the supremacy of other races banned as well?
Because we live in a white supremacist society. We punch up, not down.
nuvpr wrote
Most of these sound like pretty obvious stuff, why the buzzwords then?
misgendering people
Agreed but that can be very easily abused, I can change my gender every week while I'm online (it's the internet lol) and get anyone banned if he/she refers to me by last week's pronouns. Not very practical I'd say.
redpill/incel propaganda
I thought we were avoiding buzzwords? Where do you draw the line between "propaganda" and "facts"?
Because we live in a white supremacist society
No, just you. The world is not america and other countries do exist, I'll have you know, see my other reply.
Pop wrote
Agreed but that can be very easily abused, I can change my gender every week while I'm online (it's the internet lol) and get anyone banned if he/she refers to me by last week's pronouns. Not very practical I'd say.
It's been super practical on Raddle so far, and not abused
and we have had people genuinely figuring out their gender stuff who have changed their pronouns regularly, without so much as a hint of trouble
f/trans especially is good with it, obviously
Showing a suspicion that it will be abused around trans things generally reflects dodginess from the assumer, not the other way around
and yeah you're full of red flags for dodgy beliefs, its quite interesting that you think of yourself as good at this
I hope you stick around some and figure out more
nuvpr wrote
Nice to know being against racism is a red flag and a dodgy belief. I, too, hope to stick around long enough to know how to be racist proper :)
[deleted] wrote (edited )
nuvpr wrote
Perfect example of the "don't be a douche" rule.
Fair enough.
don't assume people's gender
Why not? I mean everybody here's been assuming my nationality and political side ever since I got in, what's stopping them from assuming my gender as well?
Where do you live
So you can make more assumptions? Nah, pass.
hasn't been shaped by white supremacy & colonialism?
[deleted] wrote (edited )
nuvpr wrote
But as far as I can tell that's not the case
How would you know? You don't know me, and you don't get to tell me what box I fit in. You don't want users to assume others' genders but would happily assume others' entire existence, amazing... Also since when were certain beliefs exclusive only to certain races or inhabitants of certain countries? Isn't that discrimination based on race, or "racism" as I like to call it?
all being victims of the worst of America's racist foreign policy
As much as I'd love for you to elaborate on this point, that's not what you said. You said "white colonialism and supremacy", and I proved that point is wrong. You don't just change the goalposts.
mofongo wrote
You better drop it, you're crossing into banable territory, specially since this is not the sub for this discussion.
nuvpr wrote
I thought this was "Friday Free Talk"? As in talk about whatever?
Go ahead and tell me what rule I broke then ban me, please.
[deleted] wrote (edited )
An_Old_Big_Tree wrote (edited )
I'd missed that. Have already asked u/ziq to deal with this turd (I've been dealing with a lot today in my afk life).
They didn't do a bad job of seeming like they were in good faith initially despite their shittiness, but that pretty quickly went out the window.
ziq wrote
I banned as soon as I saw it.
nuvpr wrote
Does it count if they're not gay though? ;)
Feel free to report me by the way, I didn't harass or attack anyone so I don't see how my comment breaks the rules. Also wouldn't that make the original comment I'm replying to "insta-ban material" as well, since it contains a slur?
Ant wrote
seems like you're genuinely willing to learn though your current perspective is very different to many of the users on this site
for many of us, political questions are what we focus on in very fundamental ways, because we're politically radical - meaning what we're opposed to the entirety of the current sociopolitical system (in this case for most of us we are opposed to state-capitalism and the various forms of structural advantage given to whole historical groups)
Using perhaps more common words, heterosexism is when people are homophobic or sexist, and cisgenderism is when people are transphobic
Hopefully someone will take the time to explain to you race theory stuff, but in short, any decent race or postcolonial theory that exists now will identify superstructures of society that benefit white people and harm people of colour
Racism here is not interpersonal prejudice but the way that the world advantages whole groups based on racial constructs
Within that, because whites are at the top of the pyramid, racism (as structure, not prejudice) can't actually be done to white people, only to people of colour
People of colour can be racist, but only to other people of colour
This might sound odd, but it's actually sound stuff if you take the time to learn about it
You might want to check out the wiki w/Whiteness_Syllabus and read a couple articles to get started
have written a lot so I will stop here!
nuvpr wrote
You can't be selective with racism, racism is discrimination and mistreatment based on race, and "race" here means any race not "all races except people of a certain skin color"... Sounds to me like your whole perspective is based on racial american politics (white boy bad, black boy good) which I honestly don't care about as I'm not american, and I know for a fact that racism and genocide against white people is a thing and always has been in many parts of the world, just because you're ignorant about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Personally I have zero tolerance for racism, either open the floodgates for all of it and say it's free speech or ban all of it, no exceptions.
Ant wrote
I'm not american and disdain american politics
however I have read a lot of postcolonial theory, race theory, and relevant philosophy of race - enough to tell you with confidence that you have only what could be called a pop-culture white liberal commonsense idea of what racism is rather than an antiracist one
and many of the the users on this site have read similarly
like i said, we build our lives on being good at this
there are quite a lot of resources on the topics on this site if you're interested in looking further
nuvpr wrote
I'm not american and disdain american politics
Good, then don't apply them to me.
you have only what could be called a pop-culture white liberal commonsense idea of what racism is rather than an antiracist one
Oh I'm sorry, didn't know the dictionary definition of racism is merely an "idea" held only by pop-culture white liberals, guess I'm inside the "pop-culture white liberal" box now! I just love it when people paint with wide brushes... Though isn't it kinda weird calling the justification of racism "antiracism"? I think "pop-culture white liberals" call that an "oxymoron".
and many of the the users on this site have read similarly
So I take it I'm not welcome here unless I agree with their personal beliefs right? Isn't that, you know, anti-diversity?
DaisyDisaster wrote
What would be anti-diversity is letting bigots air their opinions, that's why we're strict. Such a tolerance for bullshit would signal to POC, trans people, women, ect that they are unsafe here and that we have no regard for their voices. We'd rather they feel safe than someone get to freely spout bigoted, wrong beliefs.
nuvpr wrote
diversity is okay as long as it's selective diversity of a certain defined selection of beliefs
And here we go again!
If I told you I was part of these groups and your beliefs (regardless of what they are, or whether they're affecting me or not) make me feel unsafe, would you ban yourself? What about if I was not part of these groups? Will you do as I say but only if I'm a certain race/gender/sexuality/etc?
DaisyDisaster wrote
These things aren't determined just by individuals. There are people of color out there who have internalized racism and would disagree with me, however, I'm not basing my suspicion of absolute freeze peach on what one individual says or feels, but what a group of people generally experience and feel. And yes, I have been corrected by white people speaking out against racism when I find their arguments are sound. The same for cis people and men.
You aren't as rational as you seem to believe.
Ant wrote
Good, then don't apply them to me.
haven't been
dictionary definition of racism
a racist world will produce that kind of dictionary definition
literally a whole world of antiracist academic, radical, and social work on race is more than enough to challenge dictionaries that pretend to be apolitical by just reproducing the disadvantaging structures of society
mofongo wrote
Dictionary definitions are hardly the minimum needed to claim knowledge on a topic, specially such a complex topic like racism.
nuvpr wrote
Explain to me what part of "discrimination based on race" is complex. No really.
DaisyDisaster wrote
You've literally been ignoring everything people here have said to you haven't you? They've told you we consider racism more complex than a dictionary definition. You're gonna have a bad time here if you keep ignoring our arguments and putting your fingers in your ears.
nuvpr wrote
I think I got it now, you and a bunch of others decided not to follow the dictionary definition for "racism" and to follow instead the dictionary definition of "selective racism", but for the word "racism". Understood...
DaisyDisaster wrote
Nice strawman there, but no one is talking about the dictionary but you.
nuvpr wrote
Well hey feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I see it. Sorry I'm the only one in the club who doesn't want to arbitrarily define terms whenever I please.
DaisyDisaster wrote
Yeah, that's the problem, you aren't open to correction. Your immediate reaction to us was defensive, not curious. You didn't ask us how we came to that conclusion, you just reacted.
I see your game and I'm not playing it.
Ant wrote
Oh, and genocide of white people does exist, but not by people of colour, not since the invention of race at least
I totally missed that part of your comment the first time :/
nuvpr wrote
genocide of white people does exist, but not by people of colour
So what do you call what's been happening in south africa this year, what with the mass killing and torture of white farmers by black locals?
An_Old_Big_Tree moderator wrote (edited )
Since I might as well start preparing an answer in general for this, I'll respond here.
White genocide myths perpetuate as part of white supremacist narratives everywhere in the world whenever white racists feel like they're losing their advantage. This is a phenomenon worth learning about on its own, and you'll find a lot of articles on Raddle around these topics, probably in f/Africa, f/Whiteness, and maybe also f/Antifa, f/FascismRising and other places.
This was actually posted on Raddle today - an article on probably the most reputable (though liberal) newspaper in South Africa:
White genocide: How the big lie spread to the US and beyond
Aside from that, Statistics Surrounding South Africa’s Farm Murder Rate Are More Political Than Accurate
Users here have suggested you do some reading, it might be worthwhile for you to do so. There's only so much that they can say before it makes sense just for you to go to the source.
Just a heads up, you are skirting the ToS and exhibiting troll-like behaviour, so consider this a warning. "Free Talk" doesn't mean free to break the w/Terms_Of_Service.
[deleted] wrote (edited )
zombie_berkman wrote
You say "white genocide" like its actually a bad thing
nuvpr wrote
Randoms do that to /r/the_donald too, surely that also must be racism.
ziq wrote
It means don't attack people for being different than you.
zombie_berkman wrote (edited )
Brah im a cishwt white male but I dont do shit like calling cis or het "normal" or promoting altright views, or other dumbshit like white liberal feminism
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