what is a holiday to an anarchist?
I wouldn't bother myself to try to explain basic anarchist concepts to someone in order to demolish their silly Anarchojail, anarcholaw, and all silly oxymoronic concepts they may hold. I lately use this debate stance where I will feed their delusional point making even preposterous arguments, like detailing how Anarcho judges would act in this example, and at some point this interlocutor will trace a line and defend it as sacred, this will be the point where we can start a new approach in a next conversation. Or they will just notice how silly was their point since the beginning.
tuesday OP wrote
i told him that my anarchism is founded on liberation. and regardless of the practicality of any specific situation the right answer, in my opinion, is one that is liberatory. if my "solution" recreates oppression, subjugation, or control then i just don't have a solution and that's fine. eventually someone will.
i think the best choice here is to just opt out of those conversations in the future. they'll only serve to frustrate because he's decided that he's right and isn't doesn't seem to be interested in moving past the idea that anarchism is just a lack of government and private property and that humans can inherently be one way or another (in his mind people will always hurt each other out of casualcrueltyor boredom or because they are broken in some way), which i think is the biggest hurdle for me.
the idea that humans are inherently any one way i just not a position i can argue against because we can't say for sure either way.
I get where you're coming from here, and can see it working in a comedic context, but the way you describe it sounds manipulative and unfair to the other person -- just my opinion. I think asking pointed questions is more effective .
Not my intention to have a comedic effect.
I stay by my first point, personally I don't bother to have this kind of conversation anymore, the ones you hit this wall and the other part insist in reproducing fallacies like anrcho police.
My said "strategy" may be manipulative, but it's not unfair. I am justing throwing at this hypothetical interlocutor more rope for him to hang theirself in their own nonsense. Asking pointed questions make sense if are willing to engage, not my case. Sorry again if this come out as a joke, and sorry if it sounds being an asshole but I don't use this tactics to deceive anyone that isn't already deceived by themselves. Understand it as a kind of maieutic process
I think projecting opinions that are the opposite of what you think, that inconspicuously mock the other person, for the sake of supposedly humiliating (? maybe too strong a word here?) them is a dirty game. BUT I think that making hyperbolic comments about anarchoJudges etc can be hilarious and get your point across just as well, without playing this sort of "I'm a mastermind of the situation" type game.
I understand what you say, and I would totally avoid mock/humiliate anyone to get a point across in a conversation. But I think I am no expressing myself clearly, it's totally not of "I'm a mastermind of the situation" or a game, or having an intellectual high ground.
I will stop here bc you are assuming a bad faith that I already stated that is not there, I just shared my experience if it came like a suggestion for Tuesdays situation is not.
What you're describing seems relatively 'hands off' and open-ended, it doesn't suggest much of a corrective. With anarcho-jails and anarcho-law, turning that into a conversation can easily dignify and strengthen the position, so a somewhat distanced and unimpressed I do things very differently while observing anarcho-jailers run into their own walls... makes plenty sense to me.
"Gatekeeping" is a pretty bad metaphor.
tuesday OP wrote
i hate the idea that all gate keeping is somehow inherently bad. i am not mad at being accused of gate keeping if only because i think that liberation is important enough that opening up the idea of what can be considered liberatory serves to weaken it as an idea, making it useless. he told me that i don't get to decide who is or isn't an anarchist and i said ok, except that are people who absolutely aren't anarchists who say they are. and if we don't draw that line then being an anarchist means nothing.
monday wrote (edited )
The other day I was thinking in writing a /f/offmychest post to state my current position that I abandoned (maybe just for a while) any pursuit regarding anarchism™ (not anarchy tho) and political theory right now. I don't have energy or I'm willing to spend time with it. Right now I rather prefer to use my energies and time in more tangible stuff, like the FoodNotBombs project and doing art.
Usually I don't have interest in debates or even conversations about contrasting positions, specially if I am not open. And I don't believe that better positions or takes/interpretations comes out of ndebates (at least not If both parts are no engaging willingly and consciously about it). For me every debate already closed in the participants mind to reinforce their position. My interested in conversations is more focused in receive from the other side a new perspective and references.
What I described early was rather a cynical way to get some sense in tired arguments from a very specific context irl (tankies). I did it to maintain my mental health at that point in a totally egoist way and I wasn't worried in changing their mind by then. And other point is that in my personal concept of Anarchism and Anarchy, I don't consider to have a final position or that a universal concept of Anarchy exists besides what its own names carry. So for me I wouldn't engage with someone trying to assert my position over theirs and maybe this is part of my frustrations and fatigue with theory right now.
Sorry for other long post here, this is becoming like one of the old threads we used to have.
PS: and I resent that I am a confused character for some. The text usually lacks the subtlety of face to face communication, and I abuse from ambiguity here more than I really should, but again that's the beauty of it and I like poetry enough to sow doubt in everyone hearts if I can
Fair enough -- seems like I misunderstood !
It makes you a challenging (for them) anarchist and an honest friend
Not sure if it makes sense to me bc anarchy don't have a calendar or are concerned about particular cultures, i.e. anarchism can come with a lots of cultural backgrounds and mix with different stuff
I would say a holiday can be a day to celebrate or to remember. To mark a passage or other significant event and to sign a new season for communities.
kano wrote (edited )
Holidays are cool when they're not on the weekend so I get some time off work. Ofc now I'm not working. But definitely also nice to have some days for celebration generally Like the solstices or whatever else. Am not Muslim but have always enjoyed ramadan because sometimes they are giving out Hella nice food in the evenings.
My ex is really pressuring me to speak to them, it makes me kind of stressed. Also want to stay in touch w them but feelings are kinda raw rn and it's not like they are anywhere near me at the moment.
Went for a walk in the woods today, and saw cute little birdies.
Edit: is today a holiday?
tuesday OP wrote (edited )
it's emancipation day in Puerto Rico but i didn't know that. i looked it up.
i listened to a podcast once about the ways that anarchism as an ideology doesn't provide for opportunities for holidays. not on a broad sort of cultural way that provides opportunity to folks to fill a communal need for fellowship. we have no great leaders to celebrate, no religious observations. which i think allows holidays to form naturally but in the interim we're left wanting.
it's one thing to say that holidays are what we make them but holidays are rarely that person and individual. I've been thinking on that for a while with no real resolution.
kano wrote (edited )
it's emancipation day in Puerto Rico
I know nothing about this but sounds kind of ironic to me.
I feel like there are opportunities for holidays based on natural cycles. Like the solstices, various New Year's and maybe stuff like eclipses or regular meteor showers like the perseid. Probably in the end like also various communities might have dates that are important for them. Like for example in my house we could celebrate the anniversary of when we came here or idk.
Spring equinox is a huge celebration where I'm currently in (Central Asia). It's national holiday with fairs and festivals. Very nice
any day can be a holiday if you want it to be 🐀
My own made-up holidays that I don't promote or describe to anyone anymore. I don't need to share it with the world. Day off work? Should be everyday. Spending time with friends? If you like that sort of thing? Should be as often as you like. Whatever you like about a holiday, minus the parts you don't like, just do that, on whatever day or schedule you like. Anarchists don't get holidays? Nah, they get as many as they like.
roanoke9 wrote (edited )
The biggest difference between anarchist holidays and mainstream or even subcultural holidays is they will be small. But no one actually celebrates WITH millions, so that isn't much of a difference. Mine never require buying any particular thing.
Fuck Time is one of my recent favorite made up holidays. If you are into sex, the holiday can include some of that, but even the sex averse can join in the glorious smashing of clocks. Generally at least once a year, but no set date of course (because, you know, fuck time).
Is it a holiday today? I wouldn't know. The traditional Christian holidays like Easter and Christmas don't mean that much to me. On the National Day in my country (4th of July equivalent), I stay inside all day to hopefully avoid having to see the ocean of flags and consumerist nationalism. Even my birthday I don't actually value that much.
I like New Years Eve and May Day, though, because there is always something fun happening those days. But at the end of the day you're still only really celebrating the passing of time.
tuesday OP wrote (edited )
got into an argument with my roommate last night bc he thinks that anarchists can have laws and vote and do jails.
turns out that when you tell people that they aren't talking about anarchism when they say they are they get their feelings hurt.
i apologized for hurting his feelings but i told him i can't apologize for gate keeping because i have every intention of continuing.
does that make me a bad anarchist or a bad friend?