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zoom_zip wrote

fucking fire department, taking away my autonomy to die in a house fire

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moonlune wrote (edited )

I would if I could but for now I just buy their calendars.

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

fucking fire department forcing squatters to watch their houses burn down and fucking fire department charging poor people thousands of dollars for a glorified uber. Maybe extorting the poor and vulnerable is bad and purposefully letting homes burn bc the cops told you to let it burn is bad actually.

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

while I agree I think there is some problem with conflating being the receiving end of sex to be a negative thing prob rooted in misogyny and homophobia. So not seeing being fucked as an insult is prob for the best. Tho I def get why you are upset. I should have just used alternative wording tho I couldn't figure out how to make the same joke without saying fuck the fire department.

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

honestly I feel like firefighters are kinda like cops in there are a small amount of people who argue cops or firefighters have helped people. Though the regular work of firefighters and cops is very negative. Tho firefighters get more of a pass since they are significantly less shitty and do a larger amount of helpful stuff. Tho they still really suck overall.

For instance just bc someones counsin once removed was dealing with an abusive ex and the police department watched her home for a couple days so she felt safe in her home its still safe to want to abolish the police despite the cousin once removed having a positive experience with the police. This same critique applies to firefighters and medical proffesionals but the logic is different for many anarchists which is a bit weird but kinda makes sense since people arent nearly as motivated to abolish the firedepartment

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Passive_Nihlist wrote

Personally I do not really care about the suffering of state actors, whether it's as obvious as the police or more subtle like parents. Yes everyone suffers due to Leviathan, including the cops, politicians and capitalists but that dies not make me sympathetic to their complacency in these systems of domination. If a paramedic does their job out of a sense of care, it is just as heinous to me as those who do it just for money or even those who would like the power.

You say it makes more sense to attack the establishment, I do not see how paramedics aren't part of the "establishment". The state is not just lifeless institutions but also those inside them who do the work of reproducing everyday life.

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zoom_zip wrote

i'm getting the impression a lot of the responses here are US-centric because fire and ambulance services elsewhere are not so ingrained with the capitalist system

maybe i'm wrong?

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zoom_zip wrote

equally i only have a european perspective on this, i guess we are lucky that our healthcare is free or subsidised. i had to call an ambulance for my kid a year or so ago and i am grateful for the paramedics that came and gave her the treatment she needed with no charge.

they might be tied to the state re: funding, but there’s no way you can equate fire-fighters or paramedics to cops (which was done elsewhere in the thread), unless i am massively missing something or unless there is something about the way US fire-fighters and paramedics operate that is not pervasive elsewhere?

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Passive_Nihlist wrote

Then I guess I don't understand what you were getting at with your comment about centrism. The phrase "validating your feelimgs" made me think you are not saying what you'd like to say, especially since your comment started with "I know" I assume in response to my staying of disagreement with it. So is your original comment the stance you stand by then or do you have some other opinion that you could clarify?

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote

Ah I was being tougue in cheek about the centrism part since my actual opinion had me capitulating to both parties.

My opinion is that the fire department sucks and I agree with you that the joke about you having a kink for fire departments and not actually like them is annoying.

In the other hand the concept that being fucked is bad Is kinda mysogynistic. So I think not acknowledging being fucked as an insult is a good idea so I also kina like the person replying in an annoying way.

So basically yeah the fire department sucks, it's annoying for people to make a joke rather than taking your feeling seriously sucks but also implying that being the receiving partner in sex is a bad thing is something that should be discouraged. So I agree and disagree with you and the person who responded 2 u

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kin wrote

In some places the firefighters are actually gendarmerie with different uniforms, so ACAB...

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moonlune wrote

Ambulances in the US are private companies.

We're getting more and more private ambulances here too (EU, it's probably similar for other EU countries). They don't turn on their siren & lights most of the time, and are glorified taxis for people without life threatening medical conditions, are over-costed and siphon money from private insurances (maybe public money too but idk).

That wouldn't be much of a problem, but they're cannibalizing our regular free ambulances that end up understaffed & overworked. I feel like they'll disappear in a few years.

Fucking EU copying broken USA infrastructures :(

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AnarchoDoom wrote

"...but but they're Workers!"

"Cops and prison guards are Workers too, dimwit."

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AnarchoDoom wrote (edited )

I'd avoid putting everyone in a same basket.

It depends where, and whether their unions side with cop unions. In my area they're independent and got an history of not collaborating due to cop "interventions" fucking up with their jobs (like cops using their equipment without prior asking, making it harder to act quickly in a fire rescue operation). But the cops created their own BS "fire department", that is a fire prevention division, who're basically just cops and never do any fire rescue...

Firefighters' job ain't reactionary by design, unlike the cops' jobs.

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kin wrote

Why not refuse the whole idea of a dedicated firefighters corp?

Not speaking from a pragmatic place, maybe at industrial scale it is not feasible, but why not facilitate access to the tools and training for everyone interested and first aid stuff too. It's like learn to cook or read, rescue techniques are useful.

Sorry to enter in the middle of the convo

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Passive_Nihlist wrote

Burning down fire departments or even police departments doesn't actually accomplish anything. The whole abandonment of the police department in Portland last year I think demonstrates this. Power is no longer concentrated within institutions, but is diffuse in not just the bodies that make up those institutions but even in those outside of the institution.

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AnarchoDoom wrote (edited )

Why not refuse the whole idea of a dedicated firefighters corp?

"Separation", "specialization", or "division of labor"... there's different ways to call it, but it's an old thing in society. Subdivisions keep getting created to justify "experts" or "technicians" getting paychecks for some over-compartimented jobs. The more a society becomes managerial the more you get this stuff.

Of course you don't need a military when everyone is trained and armed to defend themselves, as well as knows the secrets on how to build a nuke. Same for firefighters.

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Passive_Nihlist wrote

This person seemed to me to be insinuating that if one opposes something, such as the fire department, that one should attack it. And I think the logic that attacking institutions physically doesn't accomplish this goal of not wanting these institutions.

I don't see why being a nihlist and saying something won't accomplish your goal is strange. It would seem to me the whole point of the nihlist critique of revolution is not just how it is undesirable but is not able to accomplish the goals it seeks to.

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Passive_Nihlist wrote

Sure but i think the sort of indiscriminate and meaningless attack against the institutions we find ourselves within - attack for no other reason then to attack - I think is a bit different then the logic of if you oppose X you should attack X. But that is mainly a rhetorical difference so I guess I shouldn't be too harsh but it is just my analysis that while I understand why people may lash out (I think "Murder of The Civilized" is a good text on that subject), this attack, while causing disruptions in the flows of "capital" (including social values) if one is talking about tactics and strategies, this tactic I think is just as recuperative as it is disruptive.

So yes if one would lash out against the institutions they find themselves as an end in itself that understandable, irs just the language of strategy I was critical of.

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