I was at this kava bar downtown and they kicked out a homeless woman for asking for water

Submitted by groovygardener42069 in lobby

She wasn't even bothering anybody, she just wanted some water. I was bummed I had already paid for my drink bc I was ready to be like, look if it's about the money I'll fucking pay for this lady to get some water, and then just cancel my order if they said no. The whole scene was super tense and on one hand I feel bad about not speaking up but on the other hand I got the feeling that they're like that on the regular and I'm not going to shame them into not being shitty

And they were playing like, Nickleback-adjacent cock rock. All in all it was an awful experience for everyone.

I immediately left and I tried to find that lady to help her out but she was long gone.

Why do kava bars have to be so fucking shitty? I just want a place to go that has things to drink that aren't booze or coffee

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zoom_zip wrote (edited )

i don’t want to make you feel bad about what happened. i’m not posting this to be confrontational or say you handled it wrong, because i understand why you didn’t speak up, and i think if i go back a ways i would have been in the same place. but it just reminded me of this article i read recently about how silence is complicity.

so i’m posting this in the interest of discussion because i think that it’s obvious the reasons people don’t speak up are things like:

  1. don’t care and agree with the stance (capitalist scum)
  2. fear of “making a scene”
  3. fear that the hate will be diverted onto yourself and you will also become a target of… [abuse/violence/whatever].
  4. other things

you can say that you aren’t going to shame them into not being shitty, but i’m curious what the stance is where you wouldn’t have stayed silent. if they were being racist? if they were being physically violent? would you (or others) have spoken up then?

if we can say that silence is complicity to bystanders in the realms of violence and racial abuse, do people agree that it applies here?

anyway. i feel like this post is framed as if i am blaming you, and i want to be clear that the bar are the really shitty people in this situation. i’m just interested in raising this for the conversation.

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kin wrote

It's a interesting discussion, we are for so many times prisoners of the spectacle, and speaking for me, we forget the action. I try to be alert bc sometimes the events can unfold so quick that you don't have time to process logically the situation. And there is the fine line separating us from Woke. How can we act real? The situation OP describes, involves a scenario when you are relaxed and not waiting for trouble, I would be frozen from incredulity and it's hard to say what would I do.

Guilt is not an ally here. And there is difference from this daily dosis of cruelty and more outspoken Racist, Misogynistic, Queerphobia, where the violence will escalate quickly and the events may turn into a shitstorm of violence. That's one of the reasons I left friendships, I am not a NaziHunter Warrior but I don't want to be with people comfortable with this daily cruelties.

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

"Frozen with incredulity" is a great way to describe it.

I was really just like... what the fuck... is this for real?

And I do feel guilty - I want to do something, I wanted to do something in the moment too. But now what? Leave a yelp review so all the nazi kava/kratom people know which kava bar to go to now that the one with the trump flag shut down?

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Exlurker wrote (edited )

Once upon a time I literally staged a one-man 5 minute protest on the sidewalk near my house just to meet my mental 'activism quota'.

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

But you need at least a two-man protest because who else is gonna get those sweet shots for the gram?

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Exlurker wrote

One thing I know is that Everyone's complicit anyway and everyone in that bar who wasn't a capitalist or fascist in that bar is probably put off by their actions, you can't blame yourself, just give that homeless person some money next time you see them.

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

We did our best to help some people out while we were downtown, I just didn't think that part was relevant to the story tbh

We were back in the area today and I chose not to go in there even though I really needed to use a bathroom

I spend... more money than I probably should at kava bars (I don't really go to alcohol bars) and I'm never going to that one again. I know that's probably not going to put them out of business but hey.

As I get older and actually start to meet and pay attention to the people who run local small businesses, I realize that most small business owners can also get fucked.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

DEATH TO CAPITALISTS

DEATH TO CAPITALISTS

DEATH TO CAPITALISTS

DEATH TO CAPITALISTS

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

Also real shit: does anyone who knows more than me know why the kava/kratom scene has so many open fascists?

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Fool wrote (edited )

My problem solving:

  1. Kava is from Pacific islands so unless that place is run by islanders, they're probably don't mind profiting from colonisation.

  2. 'Awa is the Hawaiian name for it, so you'd think that would be the name in America, but it has probably come via another English speaking culture (American Samoa is another possibility, or Guam... I don't know much about Guam).

  3. Australia and New Zealand have much higher Pacifika population than other English speaking countries.

  4. Hollywood Vegan's / Wellness is heavily linked to sections of Australian Vegan community which are openly spouting pro-fascism talking points.

My guess, kava bars in the US are being backed by "Australian Nasi Hippies" via "Hollywood Elites"

Now I feel like I just started a conspiracy theory.

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

That's an interesting take. I thought it was a little less centralized and more about the fact that the kava/kratom scene has a lot of overlap with the addiction recovery scene, and fascists are known to recruit in places with broken-down young people

But I also have a little bit of insight into the natural foods/vegan/hippie fascist wing of society as well and ... that kinda tracks with what I know?

I mean there has to be a supply chain for this shit. People with money know other people with money who know expats (in my experience, often fascist or fascist-adjacent) in areas where they grow the stuff.

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Fool wrote

Actually one more bit I'd add is that some highly religious (Christian) Pacifica talk up the usual fascist-adjacent talking points around trans and homosexuality.

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

Ngl, you lost me there. What do you mean by Pacifica? I get the context but want to make sure I understand

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Fool wrote (edited )

Pacifika is a term used for Pacific Islanders, started by some Pacific Islanders. I guess since it's shorter to write.

Edit: I was spelling it wrong. It should be Pacifika.

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

Oh, gotcha. I wasn't familiar with the term lol, with the context of highly religious/christian, I assumed you meant like, weirdo compound hippies in California

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Exlurker wrote

It's just a name for people native to the Pacific islands other then Australia and New Zealand, hear it all the time in NZ.

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snack wrote

fucking revolting

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snack wrote

i can hear the chorus of shit-speak answers that you would have gotten in my head:

"but if we give water to that one person then everyone will come in and want some. and we'll be overrun by homeless people and whatnot!"

"we're not a homeless shelter!!!"

"i don't run a charity - i run a business"

"i can't just give away my services for free, can i?"

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

The thing is, it's the downtown of a major US city.

Of course it's overrun with homeless people. This is fucking America.

If you don't want people coming inside asking for water, put a goddamn Igloo cooler outside and around the corner from the door with a stack of cups next to it.

It's like a hundred fucking degrees outside with 100% humidity

I just don't understand how people live with themselves

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