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_caspar_ wrote

I lived in China for a month, and it is certainly far from liberatory, especially for the supposed proletariat youre speaking of. under what metrics is the chinese state being considered liberatory by anyone? and for whom?

the select few folks that I actually built up enough trust with to open up their actual opinions, are very critical of the government. but most wont tell you outright due to fear of being ratted out by colleagues or passers by for dissent. and these arent radicals that are afraid to speak out, but college students with what would be considered moderate opinions anywhere else.

save for the massive urban expansion projects ecociding at incredible rates, mass surveillance and police presence, many clever ways to control how people (and which people) move through cities, its like any other country Ive visited: you get what you can pay for.

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Grace OP wrote

Liberalism wouldnt be tolerated in my ideal society. The bourgeois should naturally fear a proletariat state. Being a radical is the only ethical solution in this world.

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_caspar_ wrote

I didnt refer to your ideal society, and I didnt refer to liberalism. are you not claiming the goal of the chinese state is to liberate the proletariat?

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Grace OP wrote

The proletariat are already liberated from the chains of Imperialism and slavery. It's implementing the next step towards socialism that can be difficult. But I trust the Chinese government and it's steps toward socialism. They are much better than the US in everything. Right now China is market socialist, but soon enough that will change.

There is no socialism button, sadly. So it will not be clear to the west.

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_caspar_ wrote

The proletariat are already liberated from the chains of Imperialism and slavery.

would be very interesting to see you explaining that to the workers in one of the many temporary (but funny enough, never-ending) worker-camp style slums on the outskirts of Beijing that only exist to expand the metropolis further out. they build what is basically a small city for a number of years, then pick up and move, only to repeat the process..

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Grace OP wrote

China is not perfect. I never said it was. It just has many things to look forward to, and to learn from it's mistakes. Generally, the Chinese are doing a good job at treating it's poor, and less than 0,5% of the population is in poverty. The UN confirmed that statistic.

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