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Grace OP wrote

86% of the Chinese population approve of the Chinese government. Lately, you'll see Chinese ambassadors on Twitter getting more ambitious and start discussing Marxism. I recommend you watch Bay Area415 on Chinese Socialism

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

I’m not going to bother with the whole USA vs. China nonsense but I do wonder: what makes you believe what the Chinese government says? Or what any government says?

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Grace OP wrote

of course that is a very good question. You must take cautiousness on what every media says. American media will always discuss death and despair, but CGTN for example mainly talks about foreign diplomacy and infrastructure being built. The Chinese government gains nothing lying to a bunch of westerners.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

That’s not entirely true: China has diplomatic and economic ties to a bunch of western countries. Its image does have some importance.

You or I don’t matter for shit to them of course but economic sanctions could be a problem.

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Grace OP wrote

If they're trying to 'trick' western countries, it's obviously not fucking working. I trust Chinese media because they do not try to sell stuff to us. Other media sells more clicks, but Chinese media just wants information. Their foreign diplomacy can be questionable sometimes, but generally they have nothing to gain by telling me how cool their new trains are.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

To be clear, I don’t mean they’re trying to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes. I’m saying they do what any country does: do your best not to look shittier than the others.

As for infrastructure I have 0 doubts that it’s a booming business: China has an incredibly quickly growing middle class.

This brings me to my next point, and I’m sorry but there’s no way for me not to be blunt here: how are they not just as capitalist as the west? Billionaires, middle class, expansionism into Africa, landlords?

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Grace OP wrote

They have market socialism. Socialism with Chinese characterstics. The material conditions of China were unique, and Deng saved China from infinite sanctions, and let China grow.

Billionaires exist, but they are commonly executed and jailed for their crimes against the laborers. Out of the entire Chinese communist diet (or congress or whatever it's called) there is about 4000 people. Only 24 of them are capitalists.

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train wrote

Most state media is directed at ones own citizenry and not foreign populations. How do you think manufacturing consent plays a role in Chinese state media?

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Grace OP wrote

The Chinese, thanks to the media and a proper education, are Marxists. If we let 'free speech' or whatever, you already know the western Media will do everything they can to destroy the idea of Communism.

What does the Chinese government gain in 'brainwashing' 1 billion people?

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train wrote

They gain what any other country gains from state propaganda targeted at it's citizenry. They gain consent to do as they will with limited resistance.

I think you're operating under the presumption that Chinese education has made Chinese citizenry immune to that kind of propoganda. But as you well know state media is not limited to news. It's also an inherent part of education systems globally. I'm not sure what makes China different besides outwardly touting Marxism which in and of itself does not make them Marxists.

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Grace OP wrote

The chinese are educated on Marxism. It's basic knowledge that if the vanguard party does not do it's duty of defending Socialism, the people have no choice but to resist against it. The Chinese are doing a good job, and once the world shatters under Capitalism, they will rebuild.

I recommend watching bay area415's video on socialism w/ chinese characteristics.

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_caspar_ wrote

for a country so saturated with a devoted marxist following, its interesting to see how much commodity fetishism has taken root: with vast shopping malls lined up by the droves with folks looking to get the latest gadgetry.

communism in china is a spectacle, just as it was in the soviet union.

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Grace OP wrote

China is not perfect, like the USSR was not. Perfection is not required for a socialist society. You do know you can support a socialist country if theyre not a perfect anarcho-communist fantasy, right? Idealism should be laughed at, not taken seriously. I don't see any anarchist states (communes? regions? whatever) doing better on the incredible scale China is.

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_caspar_ wrote

Idealism should be laughed at, not taken seriously.

indeed, which is why the concept of the people should be laughed out the room.

anarchism is opposed to such projects, why would it want to do them better? and what is better? china certainly is doing much on an incredible scale, but none which looks desirable, especially for anyone working there.

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Grace OP wrote

China is doing a great job, and their labor laws are improving every day. Their persecution of the elite is more and more rigorous. Their pure survival is an amazing feat, thanks to Deng and MZT. Anarchism has no real way to counter the elite. Revolution is in itself authoritarian.

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_caspar_ wrote (edited )

I guess youve taken the "if you cant beat em, join em approach," however I would argue that those whom you see as beneficiaries of this project are just as miserable as any wielding power anywhere else in the world: living alienating, mechanistic lives, marching to the tune of leviathan toward control and ecocide.

"Revolution is in itself authoritarian."

in a bizarrely different way, I agree with you there.

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