Amorphous wrote
Reply to comment by suma in Comrades, the new official chapo site is almost ready! by HexBear
Do you guys not want communism? I don't understand how you'd have an issue with the hammer and sickle.
train wrote
I think Raddle has developed a largely anarchist community so not everyone approves of symbols associated with states or authoritarianism.
Amorphous wrote (edited )
Yeah, obviously, but I don't understand why you'd needlessly associate the hammer and sickle with "authoritarianism." It's a symbol of the working class, and of communism. Again, do you not want communism? I'd hope most people here regardless of what label they call themselves are in favor of communism.
lempamo wrote
i'd wager most here associate the hammer & sickle with the soviet union, lenin, stalin, etc.
not communism, but an authoritarian state capitalist society which the people here (myself included) want nothing to do with
Amorphous wrote
Why?
ziq wrote
Because that's literally what it is. It was commissioned by Lenin to be the official symbol of the USSR. You can't disassociate a symbol from its entire reason for being.
Amorphous wrote
Sure, but as you'll find if you visit the US and call yourself a libertarian, things change a bit. The hammer and sickle has been used by marxists and by anarchists for longer than you or I have been alive.
ziq wrote (edited )
If you call yourself a libertarian in the US, everyone will assume you're a capitalist.
No anarchists I know uses the hammer and sickle, and whenever someone does it's because they're baby ancoms who are ignorant of its history. Just a few months after Lenin chose the hammer and sickle to represent the Soviets (altering the original design to remove the sword from it because he felt it gave off violent vibes), he sent in his army to murder the anarchist Black Guard and cement his counter-revolution. After Emma Goldman arrived and witnessed the ongoing slaughter of anarchists and other socialists, she wrote "there's no communism in Russia" and from that point on, anarchists have had no love for the hammer and sickle.
edit:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-my-disillusionment-in-russia
NOISEBOB wrote
Doesn't change the fact that it is a symbol of authoritarian state capitalist society...
the DPRK version with the brush is better anyway
Amorphous wrote
I'll grant you that the DPRK's take on it is pretty sick. There's something to be said for the simplicity of the original though
Pop wrote
When's the last time a sickle had any relevance in your daily life
ziq wrote
I have 3 of them.
Pop wrote
are they at least different sizes
RanDomino wrote
Excuse me, sir or madam, but I happen to be a medieval farmer.
Pop wrote (edited )
I'm not a sir or a madam
it's in my bio
read people's bios before you gender them
and if you don't, avoid gender completely
this is a queer space
ziq wrote
the default for anyone you haven't seen gender themselves should be they
and if some of us don't list our gender in our bio it' might be because it's no one's business
there shouldn't be any pressure to choose or reveal a gender
Amorphous wrote
It's ... just a symbol? I don't understand the question. When's the last time an encircled A had any relevance in your daily life?
train wrote
Personally I don't really care if chapos use it. Clearly the sub was pretty much entirely demsocs who aren't worried about optics and love to be edgy and ironic. That of course is bound to spur a whole spectrum of reactions from people that are viewing chapos use of symbols through various historical lenses.
ziq wrote (edited )
after bernie lost, tankies infiltrated the mod team and started pushing the chapos to tankieism, branding everyone who wouldn't conform as a lib and banning them.
train wrote
I can't speak to the mod team being inflitrated or people getting banned for not conforming. Feel free to link some evidence of that.
However, I can say that the most consitent joke on the sub was that everyone was a lib. That's almost certainly making fun of tankies for expecting everyone to conform to their ideological perspective. Imo the user base largely rejected MLs, particularly Stalin and Mao apologists. Although the latter were certainly present.
Lastly though, I'm confident the Lemmy instance won't be composed of the same broad group of leftists from reddit, most of whom are probably happy the sub is banned. So if you are worried about entryism and demsocs turning tankie, I doubt chapo.chat will suceed in that regard if that's what the mods truly intend.
Pop wrote
it's not just an empty symbol though, there's a hammer and a sickle
it wasn't just a symbol to the people it was actually relevant for
now it's just an empty image reflecting how far away from our daily lives are from the time that was relevant
Amorphous wrote
It's not empty, but it is just a symbol. It represents the farmer and the industrial worker, united against their oppressors. It may not perfectly line up with what our modern system looks like, yet the meaning still holds.
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