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CaptainACAB wrote (edited )

I sympathize, but in all honesty, where else would they go? Into the arms of tankies? It would be wrong to turn them away when we already had a sub for them (they seem to post primarily there, and anything outside of it seems relevant to the sub that they're posting to). We've already had socialists here before and I doubt that those of us that are already into the green/nihilist/illegalist/post-left side are going to go back to socialism. If you want raddle to be about those topics, the solution is to hide the chapo thread and post more about those topics; if we can get more than a handful of these newcomers to actually engage with that material (not even to convert to it or reject it), I'd say that the influx of socialist content and initial awkwardness was worth it. They seem to like it here and the fact that posts can get more than 20 upvotes means that raddle is getting more use; which is nice to see.

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ziq wrote

post more about those topics

This is the step everyone seems to skip. When there's activity on the site and new voices, everyone shows up to complain that things are changing, but typically raddlers only show up for the friday threads, only a handful of the regulars here have any proclivity to start convos.

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CaptainACAB wrote

It was the general vibe of inactivity that kept me from registering here until about a year ago. Bunch of new posts from you, Tequila Wolf, or someone else; but no comments. Even now I refrain from commenting that often because I feel like I wouldn't have anything all that interesting or relevant to say.

Maybe I should just ignore that thought and comment more; my comment to actual submission ratio be damned.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

I encourage you to post more. Taking a couple minutes to think about something that was interesting for you and write it ads a lot to the place.

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Bezotcovschina wrote

Even now I refrain from commenting that often because I feel like I wouldn't have anything all that interesting or relevant to say.

My fears exactly. I'm afraid of making basic takes and not contributing to a discussion fairly. Should, probably, start doing it anyway.

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Knal3 wrote

I sympathize, but in all honesty, where else would they go?

Right? This seems like the next logical place for us after being chased away from Reddit.

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CaptainACAB wrote

And a lot of us are glad to have you guys here. It's natural that a small community of fringe-upon-fringe politics would be apprehensive at the prospect of a very large number of newcomers. We aren't tankies, so keeping you guys out when you aren't even fascists or tankies would be contradictory to both anarchism and socialism. Enjoy the website.

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NeoAnabaptist wrote

We can learn from each other too. I really don't want to jump into this space and dominate it; I want to hear the perspective of the people who are here and add mine.

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xy0 wrote

everything sounds so stratified these days. Why can't communities exist where people have different opinions about things, sheesh. Back in 2005, there was one big place where everyone had to intermingle and get along. And we did. Not without drama though, but that's just life.

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RanDomino wrote

The issue is tankies coming here and shitting on everything.

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ziq wrote (edited )

make 10 accounts and downvote them until they leave

Tankies won't stay in a space they can't control tho, they'll all be on lemmy by next week praising Assad and Putin as is their custom

Let's filter out as many good ppl as we can for raddle until then

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thelegendarybirdmonster wrote

make 10 accounts and downvote them until they leave

In good old raddle tradition.

And don't forget to ping them in the mediation forum lol

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PigPoopBalls wrote

Don't forget their love for North Korea

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ziq wrote

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classicAgency wrote

Not a DPRK supporter, but that article is really, really bad. Its not historically accurate in the slightest, Juche has its origins in Marxism-Leninism and has nothing to do with Japanese fascism. North Korea is the way it is because a lot of its political and economic systems were inspired by Stalin's USSR, which also included lots of leader worship and idealism.

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ziq wrote

Laat time I checked, ML doesn't have a royal lineage.

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classicAgency wrote

The DPRK is not a monarchy. There are no royal titles or positions, nor is there a formal system of hereditary leadership. Every leader has been choosen by the workers party of korea, they just happen to choose leaders from a particular family thats all. The term you are looking for is 'herditary dictatorship'

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ziq wrote

Lmao

Keep drinking that koolaid fam

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PigPoopBalls wrote

Thanks for the link. Obviously I knew imperial Japan had colonized the Korean peninsula, but I never realized the through line to the modern fascistic government.

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RanDomino wrote

We all know they're going to be better at that.

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ziq wrote

You've only been here for a day so idk y u even care tbh.

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RanDomino wrote

I've been lurking since Raddle was launched but couldn't be arsed to make an account.

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CaptainACAB wrote

Yeah, I get it. I've engaged with tankies on this website before; hell, mocking them was the reason for one of my few submissions. Even made a tankie parody alt that I rarely even use anymore. Tankies are dealt with relatively quickly here; they're either banned for red fash shit or their paper-thin veneer of sensibility cracks and they ragequit, typically spewing something along the lines of: "ANARKIDDIES DONT EVEN READ THEORY YOU PROBABLY DONT EVEN HAVE A UNION YOU HISTORICAL REVISIONIST LIBERAL".

I feel sorry for anyone who mods this place whenever our political opponents get bored.

But for every one tankie that was the chapo subreddit, there were a bunch of other leftists; otherwise it would've been another circlejerk for communist academics. Tankies came to raddle before, they'd come again if the subreddit was still up; it's hardly fair to keep a large, mixed assortment of leftists out of a potential community space because of a few Stalin fanatics.

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RanDomino wrote

otherwise it would've been another circlejerk for communist academics.

It was though, after the mods got replaced with tankies.

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CaptainACAB wrote (edited )

Fine. But the odds of that happening here are exponentially lower. And most of the people who have migrated here seem decent enough. Tankies are easy to deal with and the odds of one of them becoming an admin are still minuscule, and if they become mods, they can be demodded; if you can't trust the admins to be diligent enough to spot them, and you can't trust any of the older users to suss them out, what are you even doing here?

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RanDomino wrote

It's not about "odds"... it's about whether or not they're doing it.

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mofongo wrote

Mods have no hierarchy, they can't take over a sub by demodding everyone else.

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CaptainACAB wrote

Okay. Tankies aren't replacing mods. Tankies aren't becoming admins either, If you don't want odds, I won't give them to you. Going to be hard to continue this exchange, though, because I can't give absolutes on future events.

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RanDomino wrote

They won't if they're banned on sight. I haven't seen anything else effective.

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mofongo wrote

They're not banned on sight, we break them first.

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CaptainACAB wrote

But then we don't get the chance to make fun of them.

I haven't even seen an ML here, yet.

Tankies that fall into red fash territory get banned for breaking TOS; the ones that don't quit when they get bored. Getting them to crack and reveal their reactionary positions is a fun game; they always either say something to get banned or they get mad and leave.

They're a nuisance at worst and a joke at best.

It's been established that if they were to become a mod, they can be demodded and anything that they've done can be undone.

You know you can block users, right? Just hover over their username and the botton should pop up.

Don't deprive me or anyone else the joys of enraging tankies just because you don't want to engage with them.

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RanDomino wrote

They're fascists. You don't engage with fascists.

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CaptainACAB wrote

Yes. If we're using the more affable definition of engage; but I'm using engage in the more combative sense. I'm not saying that you or anyone else has to or should go into an honest debate with them.

Banning them on sight just makes them feel like they've won.

Humiliating them usually deters them from coming back and we don't come off as hypocritical, which newer users may care about regardless of how ineffectual a tactic pointing out hypocrisy is.

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science_pope wrote

As a dusty ass last century ideologue, if I hadn't come here then who knows when I might've encountered the words "green nihilist illegalism" together and started reading about it.

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bloodrose wrote

This. I came to raddle as a full fucking tankie. I learned a lot from raddle.

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subrosa wrote

I'm happy to see raddle grow. Getting to a point where it makes sense to browse by forum instead of all/new.

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masque wrote (edited )

I feel like there's a tendency for small forums to lose a sense of community if they grow too much. I'm not sure massive growth makes sense for raddle.

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mofongo wrote

There's still the chatroom.

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masque wrote (edited )

I'm not in the chatroom, and am generally more comfortable in a slow-moving forum-style environment.

EDIT: Also, not sure I post enough/have been around long enough to really be "part of the community" yet, but I'm working on it.

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bloodrose wrote

I was in the chatroom but it got too fast for me so I get where you're coming from. It's since died out a bit.

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Bezotcovschina wrote (edited )

Chapo forum is the second forum I hid after illegalism. I still browse them separately, they are funny.

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TheDeed wrote

Dang I thought y’all welcomed us here :(

In any case I think you can just hide the subreddit, we don’t seem to be shitting up your other forums at the moment

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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ziq wrote

ultra-left

On raddle? Who?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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mofongo wrote

I was the only resident ultra left, but my positions have changed since them.

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ziq wrote

the more tankie stuff that gets posted, the more push back you'll see from the existing userbase

Everyone here understand how entryism works

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TheDeed wrote

I don’t know anything about entryism so I should probably look that up

A lot of people seem like legit upset I copied those Marxist reading links into the megathread

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ziq wrote

We've had bad experiences with tankies trying to seize power and purge all dissent on this site. I doubt anyone cares about Marxist lit tho, just ML stuff. Historically, MLs always purge anyone who isn't loyal to their party, but they pretend to care about "left unity" in the lead up to the revolution, before they seize power and kill all the people that actually fought the revolution. It's happened so many times that you can safely set your clock by it. The same thing plays out online when they worm their way onto mod teams.

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RanDomino wrote

Ban PringlesCaliphate and hogposting for being obvious tankies. hogposting posted Parenti and PringlesCaliphate is running cover for it.

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celebratedrecluse moderator wrote

Bans on raddle are covered by the terms of service, anyone of any left or post left political ideology who complies with that is not going to get banned. This of course de facto excludes fascists and various types of authoritarians because of the wording of the ToS. This posture has been the case on Raddle since before i got involved. It is a way to create accountability, transparency, trust, and a welcoming environment for people to interact on the site.

when tankies try to do an entryism here, i am of the opinion that they should simply get downvoted to hell and clowned on all the way back. it has worked well so far

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juche_frame wrote

Idk yall seem cool and i wanna chill with cool peoples

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bloodrose wrote

I'm not disappointed. I didn't come here as a green post-left an-prim. I came here as a tankie. I think this site can have a positive influence.

My main concern is quick growth. I think quick growth can be hard to deal with and I worry about us possibly mis-moderating or not scaling well. I always wanted raddle to grow and I tried to push people to this site and tried to post items at least weekly (daily when I wasn't swamped with real life). We will see if this new influx is permanent and we massively grow all at once, or if we keep just a few of the users if they chose a different platform.

In the meantime, post more green nihilist illegalism stuff so the CTH folks can see it. :)

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ziq wrote

what happened to make you a tankie btw? was it reddit?

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bloodrose wrote

Reddit is where I got Stalin apologism, but my Lenin-worshipping came from Russian History course at university. I became very fascinated with the early history of him, going so far as to read the novel "What is to be done?" which is where Lenin stole a title from. (It's a lovely book, btw). And I was really into his "mistress" who was later discarded and silenced. She had some radical ideas that were just thrown away.

But those far-right losers aren't right that college radicalizes one as I was already willing to call myself a communist before university. I got that because in school we're taught there is capitalism and then there is communism and those are the two things that exist and that is all. And capitalism sucks so clearly, I preferred communism.

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shellac wrote

We chapo people are generally nice except to chuds and fash. Really appreciate you all letting us on here and hope we will all get along.

Any primer on what “green nihilist illegalism” is? Seems interesting. Sounds like it’s related to one of the themes of a film I saw last year, First Reformed.

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_caspar_ wrote

ha, I can see how someone would see that from the film, though the Ethan Hawke character was really following Christian values to their more extreme conclusion.

but seriously, that is just a string of tacked together tendencies. each have their own histories, though an interesting practice could be built on all three (and perhaps has). the text Desert has been described as "green nihilism" in Alejandro de Acosta's review of that text.

one could argue that eco-extremist groups fall under those terms as well, but that is debatable depending on the ideology of the group.

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deeppurplehazedream wrote

I've been lurking here for almost 3 years. I thought I'd better sign up a.few months ago when the Clouds were causing problems. I think it's really good, that CTHer’s are giving Raddle a try. I even looked into the CTH discord server, but didn't like that I couldn't do it from TOR, at least not like I'd want. Of course, down the line there’ll probably be more attention from the right as well because of the growth. Raddle is growing up.

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Majrelende wrote (edited )

I do not care much- I enjoy diversity, but now that I think about it, it was probably beneficial for green and nihilist anarchy when there was more of a voice for it.

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Bezotcovschina wrote

I don't worry much. Raddle is not a site for "green nihilist illegalists", it's for everyone except fash.

I think, after the initial period of turbulency, it will be more of like it used to be.

I always wanted raddle to grow. And I don't want it to be just a circlejerk of same ideas, same opinions, same views.

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ziq wrote

Just block the forum until they leave.

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videl wrote

im wary that a bunch of dusty last century ideology will permeate throughout the site. but it prolly won't. guess we'll see what happens.

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Raxalor wrote

Most of it is contained to /f/chapotraphouse at the moment, at least.

Only annoying thing is having to log in every-time I visit the site so it gets filtered out.

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ziq wrote

you say you liked this place before the chapos showed up but they left days later and you haven't posted for a month

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sysgen wrote

The chapotraphouse peope are setting up a lemmy so it shouldn't be an issue for long if that's what you're worried about.

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LostYonder wrote

besides the ideological detours, the place has been hijacked by a bunch of reddit wannabes...

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Pop wrote

I just blocked the forum as soon as they started coming in

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