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2

dele_ted wrote

That's been my concern too. I think direct democracy definitely has its place on this platform, but it needs another layer - perhaps one that enables discussion before solutions can be proposed.

Looking forward to your input!

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Wrestitaway wrote (edited )

First - I can't program. I dunno if I used the term "scripts" correctly, but I'm sure those who know kinda know what I mean.

So I don't know how feasible some of this could be, but I think there are some basic hurdles to jump over before anything.

A lot of it can be solved by time limit windows or making discussion topics subraddle-specific.

We need an f/meta type subraddle where all these discussions can take place under their own post and be archived. People will be redirected to there from wherever they are originally.

  • Before any discussion can happen we need to figure out who can start discussions and where best to advertise and where those discussion should take place. Should it be in one specifical subraddle like f/meta or in any relevent subraddle? We should go with the former as I think its easier to archive and log.

  • We need a way to figure out how many people are going to be involved initially and are able to vote all the way through to the end to make the process consistent and deter vote manipulation. Like a time-limited open enrollment. Also, we need people to vote from their main accounts - accounts that are new should be excluded. Negative/low karma/troll accounts excluded. Which means:

    • We need a way for a member to post a groupwide/raddlewide topic that is distinguished from other regular posts (maybe a different color) that is essentially a script that allows people to sign up and enroll. So OP will create a title for their post and select a checkmark next to the submit button that will say something like: "Do you want this to be a consensus post?"

    • If they check that box - OP will have that posted to whatever subraddle they're in and it will serve as an open enrollment, but it will also automatically post to the f/meta type subraddle with the discussion title OP chose, .

    • That open enrollment is time-limited and when the clock runs out, it tallies up who enrolled and sends them a link to the f/meta type subraddle post. So we need to create a script that launches a dialogue box inside each "enrolled" members inbox that says something like this. It will create a link to that f/meta type subraddle discussion post.

If they click the link:

  • They are redirected to that post and they see another dialogue box that outlines the steps: like this

  • If everyone consents and/or concedes within some given timeline:

    • motion passes
    • thread is automatically locked and archived
    • it's logged in some public fashion where anyone can refer to it
  • If they object or oppose:

    • Each opposing member is given the original reply box to make their cases and express their concern. They are also given post-flair that states OPPOSE.

    • The now comment is open to other replies as per usual. Members can ask questions. Make statements and advocate their positions.

    • This process is under a time limit as well (2 hrs, 2 days, 2 weeks, whatever it may be) and when the clock runs out the dialogue box reappears and those opposed are given a chance to vote again.

    • If they still oppose - the process starts over. And other members are again allowed to make their compelling arguments and the opposing member is able to make new points.

    • That process repeats until everyone comes to a solution that they can live with and reaches consensus.

  • If someone thinks its imperative that they block the topic:

    • They choose block from the dialogue box
    • An automatic post appears with text "XXXXX has blocked this proposal" in the thread
    • If a high percentage (40%) block the proposal - the OP would be sent a message asking if they want to revise the initial post
    • If 50%+ block the proposal - then the proposal is logged and archived but deleted from the f/meta type subraddle and OP is messaged stating that it was a rejected proposal.
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dele_ted wrote

Many of these are good ideas, but there is one limitation: we cannot make changed to Raddle's codebase right now. Usually, emma would be the one responsible for that, but as you probably know she left the community recently. Raddle is written in PHP, and we currently don't have any developers who know enough about PHP to implement new features.

For this reason, Konsent is completely separated from Raddle. We could of course require new Konsent accounts to be tied to a Raddle account, and verify the tie with a simple message to the Raddle account. This way, we could make sure that only users with more than X comments, posts or upvotes can register on Konsent, and that users don't make more than one account (at least not with some serious effort for each new account).

We need a way to figure out how many people are going to be involved initially and are able to vote all the way through to the end to make the process consistent and deter vote manipulation

We could make it so users can only participate in issues that they voted for in phase one. That would also stop people from vetoing issues they haven't participated in, which is probably a very good idea.

The rest is good ideas, but can't be implemented due to Raddle being unmaintainable at the moment. Konsent and Raddle will have to be completely separated both code and database-wise.

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Wrestitaway wrote

oh wow, I didn't realize we were that talent-bare.

So is this going to be a downloadable app or entirely web-based?

I can see an app where users can sign up and members can create there own groups (like subraddles) and make their own proposals and send out notifications to their groups or the larger konsent community and the dialogue boxes, time limits and processes I mentioned before can be retained.

Probably be a lot lighter, too.

I like the raddle/konsent connection as well - seems like it could hinder any infiltration/troll infestation efforts.

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dele_ted wrote (edited )

So is this going to be a downloadable app or entirely web-based?

It'll be entirely web-based for now. If we get more developers on board, a FOSS app might be possible in the future. There's a link to the latest stable release in the sidebar if you haven't seen it yet.

I like the raddle/konsent connection as well - seems like it could hinder any infiltration/troll infestation efforts.

That was definitely a good idea, I'll open a new issue on GitHub about it soon. Won't be too difficult to implement. We might make it a part of the next release, 0.2a, if we get the current issues solved quickly.