'Green' colonialism is ruining Indigenous lives in NorwayComments
[deleted] wrote
_caspar_ wrote
do you have any personal insight or leads (texts or otherwise) on anarchic practices among berbers, or other desert nomad peoples? Ive been doing some research trying to find some correlations between those living in deserts (nomads or otherwise), their folklore (for example, jinn in your part of the world) and anarchy.
[deleted] wrote
_caspar_ wrote
sent you more specifics, but Ill go ahead and echo /u/mofongo that Im interested in any stories youd like to share..
mofongo wrote
I love stories, could you tell me any traditional story that you like?
[deleted] wrote
_caspar_ wrote (edited )
I would be happy if I could be half as good as you with another language in my lifetime.
Ganggang wrote
Norway is a huge culprit of “green” colonialism, or maybe more generally moralist colonialism. They love their “charity.”
Studying there right now, taking a course on the Norwegian language, and they love to get their peopoganda in. It’s a talking point they have “the greenest oil in the world”. The propaganda is ridiculous and arrogant and if you criticize it as a foreigner they like to say “oh well it’s not like that here but I understand why you’d think otherwise as a foreigner. I know the rest of the world isn’t as developed”.
ziq OP wrote
Lol that's really condescending.
[deleted] wrote
Ganggang wrote (edited )
Well it’s a long story lmao. But my gf is Norwegian, I met her online. And to be with her, I’m taking Norwegian classes this year - both getting me a visa, and helping me potentially get more stable work here. I’m from USA.
[deleted] wrote
Ganggang wrote
Alright man thanks you too
BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote
Lot of liberals have a tendency of saying ‘oh nobody lives here’ when deciding to put up windmills. In many cases they fail to realize that people actually do live there and their land is not something you can just use whenever you see fit.
Only with a genuine solidarity between the working people of southern Norway and the indigenous working people far in the North, is it possible to correctly and respectfully zone lands for green energy production. It is absolutely possible, and probably easy, to come to a consensus with the indigenous peoples on where to put green energy, but that would delay profits so I guess it’s a waste of time.
jbrn3236 wrote
Why do they have to be workers?
BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote (edited )
They don’t ‘have’ to be, they just are, and since they are the only way to build genuine solidarity is through recognizing the shared material interests of the working class across Norway.
jbrn3236 wrote
That's kind of reductionist, not everyone is a worker. And it's a classification created and imposed by an oppressive society, anyway, as is the forced labor that accompanies it. We can broaden our horizons and look beyond such limiting constructs, while still recognizing our common material interests within and beyond the human paradigm.
BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote
You can’t first abolish being a ‘worker’ without acknowledging that workers exist and that work is a thing to be abolished. Only workers can abolish work and as such it is up to workers to recognize themselves as workers and destroy the system which forces them into that position.
Not to mention the fact that when class dynamics are not explicitly acknowledged, a movement will inevitably fall victim to petit-bourgeois ideology.
jbrn3236 wrote
I acknowledge workers exist, it's just more complicated than that; that is, class dynamics are not the be-all end-all. Class is but one of society's oppressive aspects.
BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote
Class is the base through which all other oppressions originate and/or are shaped.
_caspar_ wrote
that's an assumption, but how do you figure? some folks claim it is controlled fire. how far back do you go, and on what shifting evidence (as new research findings surface)? the reductivist attempt to declare the one source, that key piece to the puzzle, is a game of dead ends.
class itself has shifted dramatically in a matter of generations. the distinctions are nothing like marx's 19th century analysis. the situationists and italian autonomists wrote volumes on this 50 years ago. and for as much as folks like to wax nostalgic, this aint '68.
ziq OP wrote
no, authority is
ziq OP wrote
Only workers can abolish work
Why? Workers have never in history abolished work, rather once they've been assimilated into the system, they have a vested interest in proliferating the system and maintaining it at all costs, despite its global carnage. This is the same logic that gave us the "we need to create capitalism to achieve communism" scam.
BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote
Who else will abolish work? The capitalists? No, it’s the working class who is to abolish work because the working class is the only class with a vested interest in abolishing work.
ziq OP wrote (edited )
When talking about indigenous cultures your European class system doesn't apply. It typically completely excludes indigenous people, especially hunter gatherers.
The only people who have abolished work are indigenous hunter gatherers who have no use for it and constantly have to reject it every generation as an endless stream of colonizers try to force it on them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadza_people
They escape the schools, factories and farms they're forced into and go back to the land. Workers have nowhere to escape because work and materialism is all they know.
Workers don't abolish work, they climb the work hierarchy and then exploit everyone below them.
Creating work doesn't abolish work.
Creating class doesn't abolish class.
Creating capitalism doesn't abolish capitalism.
Creating states doesn't abolish states.
Creating authority doesn't abolish authority.
ziq OP wrote
that's completely imperialistic
BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote
How
ziq OP wrote
you're forcing people into your capitalistic work-based industrial culture and pretending everyone lives like you live
Stalin did the same thing and deprived indigenous nomadic herders of their ancestral lands, declaring them all part of the working class, leading to millions of them starving to death
keez wrote
Some more history about Norways crimes against the Sámi and Kven people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegianization