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BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote

You can’t first abolish being a ‘worker’ without acknowledging that workers exist and that work is a thing to be abolished. Only workers can abolish work and as such it is up to workers to recognize themselves as workers and destroy the system which forces them into that position.

Not to mention the fact that when class dynamics are not explicitly acknowledged, a movement will inevitably fall victim to petit-bourgeois ideology.


jbrn3236 wrote

I acknowledge workers exist, it's just more complicated than that; that is, class dynamics are not the be-all end-all. Class is but one of society's oppressive aspects.


BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote

Class is the base through which all other oppressions originate and/or are shaped.


_caspar_ wrote

that's an assumption, but how do you figure? some folks claim it is controlled fire. how far back do you go, and on what shifting evidence (as new research findings surface)? the reductivist attempt to declare the one source, that key piece to the puzzle, is a game of dead ends.

class itself has shifted dramatically in a matter of generations. the distinctions are nothing like marx's 19th century analysis. the situationists and italian autonomists wrote volumes on this 50 years ago. and for as much as folks like to wax nostalgic, this aint '68.


ziq OP wrote

Only workers can abolish work

Why? Workers have never in history abolished work, rather once they've been assimilated into the system, they have a vested interest in proliferating the system and maintaining it at all costs, despite its global carnage. This is the same logic that gave us the "we need to create capitalism to achieve communism" scam.


BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote

Who else will abolish work? The capitalists? No, it’s the working class who is to abolish work because the working class is the only class with a vested interest in abolishing work.


ziq OP wrote (edited )

When talking about indigenous cultures your European class system doesn't apply. It typically completely excludes indigenous people, especially hunter gatherers.

The only people who have abolished work are indigenous hunter gatherers who have no use for it and constantly have to reject it every generation as an endless stream of colonizers try to force it on them.

They escape the schools, factories and farms they're forced into and go back to the land. Workers have nowhere to escape because work and materialism is all they know.

Workers don't abolish work, they climb the work hierarchy and then exploit everyone below them.

Creating work doesn't abolish work.

Creating class doesn't abolish class.

Creating capitalism doesn't abolish capitalism.

Creating states doesn't abolish states.

Creating authority doesn't abolish authority.