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ziq wrote

i don't see how dune is critical of any of those things, the message isn't anti white-savior/colonialism/cult of personality from what i saw. it just takes them for granted. i read it's because frank decided feudalism is human nature.

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moonlune wrote (edited )

the criticism appears in the second book (the one most hated by fans lol).

[...] the second novel in the series flipped over the carefully crafted hero myth of Paul Muad’Dib and revealed the dark side of the messiah phenomenon that had appeared to be so glorious in Dune. Many readers didn’t want that dose of reality; they couldn’t stand the demotion of their beloved, charismatic champion [...]

Among my father’s most important messages were that governments lie to protect themselves and they make incredibly stupid decisions.

Quoted from brian herbert's introduction to the second book

Also paul kinda tries to fight his destiny of being a white savior / worshiped but fails and causes a mass genocide.

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ziq wrote

reminds me of star wars when everyone hated that movie where luke is washed up and wants nothing to do with jedi power

i thought it was the only good one

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existential1 wrote

I feel the same way. Of the new trilogy, i only like the 2nd. It was the only of the 3 that felt like a quintessential Star Wars film in terms of giving you new technology (irl) or visuals that you'd never seen before and not just rehashing old shit.

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moonlune wrote (edited )

The only new star wars that looks interesting to me is rogue one. I haven't seen it yet but I'm planning to someday.

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existential1 wrote

I liked that one too...but it wasn't part of the new trilogy. Maybe I just don't like JJ Abrams. That's completely possible.

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ziq wrote (edited )

Oh that one's great actually

Also the cartoon star wars rebels

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existential1 wrote

I watched clone wars in the chronological watch order and not show order...then rebels after. Loved em. Slow to grow on you then you're hooked. Rebels produced arguably the best star wars content on-screen. The episode Twilight of the Apprentice...jfc...wow. It takes so much investment to understand everything...but that episode alone cemented the show to me. Then they hit the esoteric bits of the force in later arcs. Loved it.

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ziq wrote

The last one was just a giant fuck you to the second one.

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Quicksilver wrote

Is it really the most hated? Most people I've seen talking about the books see Dune Messiah as a natural extension of Dune, and really needs to be read to fully understand Paul's journey. It's also probably my favourite (but Im a big fan of ghola Duncan)

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moonlune wrote

Well that's what brian said in the intro, and I saw a lot of comments on reddit telling people to read the first, then to power through the second because they'll appreciate the third book.

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Quicksilver wrote

Eh, guess I'm just a bit different. I found children of dune to be my least favourite out of the first four books.

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ziq wrote

yup, all the critiques im reading of the book say the same thing: it's not a critique of those power structures, it just reproduces them uncritically because the author believed authority (master / serf) is the natural state of humanity.

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq wrote

i haven't read the books, just saw the movie and read critiques of the books to try and understand why the movie was so basic

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