Posadism asserts that global nuclear warfare could bring about the collapse of capitalism and kickstart a communist revolution. Environmental collapse poses a similar threat to global capital and civilization.
So my question is this; is Posadism and Anti-civ/ Primitive ideologies compatible, even comparable? Aren't we all just waiting for the world to end?
Posadists literally want to nuke the planet to "save" it from humans.
Edit:
Posadists gained notoriety on the left for their unorthodox views regarding nuclear war. They believed that nuclear war was not only likely, but also desirable. For nuclear war was the supreme opportunity for the forces of world revolution.[14] A devastating nuclear winter would represent ‘the final settlements of accounts of Socialism against the capitalist system’.[3]
At the first congress of their International Posadas announced: ‘Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on earth. But it will not impede communism’.[3]
Posadas expanded on his views of nuclear war in a number of pamphlets but never strayed from his view that one was both likely and necessary, writing,
“”‘Nuclear war equals revolutionary war. It will damage humanity but it will not – it cannot – destroy the level of consciousness reached by it. Humanity will quickly pass through nuclear war into a new human society.....after the destruction commences the masses are going to emerge in all countries – in a short time, in a few hours.’[3]
Not content to merely make statements about the necessary price to pay for socialism that would shock Eric Hobsbawm, Posadas and his followers actively pushed to make nuclear war a reality. Posadist papers were known for their appeals to the Soviet Union and China to make a preemptive nuclear strike against the United States.
And I didn't even mention their ufo kink. They want alien rulers to come and rescue them. Truly the oddest of all the Trots.
As a note, what I heard from modern Posadists is that a revolution is impossible due to modern technology, and thus focus should be on the fact that inevitably war will destroy modern society and preparations to follow up with communism.
They're still Trotskyites, so no big fan, but I just wanted to say that.
They do speak about how they might exploit elements of the collapse to make their situation better, but they aren't deferring any rebellion until later.
I believe this is the position of some posadists, disaster is inevitable and the struggle continues despite it. I watched this today and felt a connection between posadism and my own views on collapse; that things get worse before they get better.
(this is the reason for the post btw)
Yeah post-civ and posadism are very similar... pretty much "things will get worse before they get better"
isnt there a big difference in that posadists actively seek out/ want destruction and nuclear war while anticiv/primmie are just like "yeah it's gonna happen any moment now and here's what we will do"?
The nuking things comes out of what many thought was the inevitable war between USA and USSR. Two countries that Posada's considered imperial capitalists states.
It wasn't that Posadist want the nuclear war to happen, just they believed is was going to happen.
Partly, but I think that posadists seek out destruction because they see it as the only way [to implement communism]. More of a "get it over with' approach. Some primmies also want to "tear down" civilization, where as anti-civ usually just takes the waiting-it-out approach.
Anyone using the word "primmie" doesn't know anything about the subject.
or i'm just using abbreviation...
Anprim is the abbreviation
Anticiv is a critique of the coercive construct of civilization. It's about advocating for anarchy without compromise and recognizes that civilization is the ultimate authority that drives all archy. It doesn't hold apocalyptic desires just because it recognises the mass destruction that civilization is responsible for. Civilization is about waiting for the end of the world. Anticiv is the yearning for a better world beyond apocalyptic civilization.
Aren't we all just waiting for the world to end?
I sure hope not...but deep down, I know a lot of people are
Soviet scientists were researching dolphin communication and if humans could translate it, and were on the verge of cracking it. There's a few logical leaps after that, but the belief is essentially dolphins are most likely to fill the niche that humans fill after we have all been beamed up to the space commune. They, too, will create a civilization and when they achieve the tech to reach the stars and overcome capitalism (If they ever have it at all) and become communistic, they too, shall join the space commune.
epic 😎 🐬🛸
It's even better on reddit where this copycat took it from. The above poster is not me, and I suggest Ziq bans them for impersonation.
Why would I care if a genocide fetishist is being impersonated?
You don't even know me, first off. Second off, I'm actually a member of the IWW and have done work with Bread not Bombs. Just cause I like aliens and the endless meme-ry of posadism doesn't mean shit about my actual political ideology.
But thanks for making assumptions about me. If you want to make more false info, can include I'm a six foot tall lobster man with claws that can snap a cops neck? Thanks.
¿Bread not Bombs is the tankie branch of Food not Bombs?
I think you're right about it being Food not Bombs. Please forgive this older adult and my faulty memory. I worked with them in my teen years at a local co-op bakery they had in my hometown. Or maybe the bakery just heavily supported them. It's where I got the majority of my early teachin's. But if calling me a tankie makes you feel better about attacking me, go ahead. I know where I stand. The Tankies call me an Anarkiddie. When they aren't confused about who I am.
Don't worry, and sorry for my weird sense of humor. I didn't call you tankie, directly, just the Idea of a parallel FnB project called Bread not Bombs
Some FnB projects usually have support or rely from local bakeries indeed.
Thanks comrade! There are folks who come to this site and impersonate me, and I just got called a genocide fetishist, so I'm a little defensive.
if you don't want to be called a genocide fetishist, don't fetishize genocide in your username
I'm actually a member of the IWW and have done work with Bread not Bombs
lmao
An_Old_Big_Tree wrote
I don't know anything about Posadism, but I can say stuff about primitivists and non-primitivist anti-civ people.
Primitivists like Zerzan want us all to consciously abandon civilisation and become future-primitives, afaik, ideally before everything goes to shit.
Non-primitivist anti-civ people have a range of views, but I don't know any that advocate or are interested in creating revolution after collapse. They almost universally are interested in creating the freest conditions for themselves in the now, and not at all after some future hypothetical historical turning point. They do speak about how they might exploit elements of the collapse to make their situation better, but they aren't deferring any rebellion until later. They are trying to live anarchy now.
I think that environmental collapse probably poses more threat to anti-civ perspectives than it does to capitalism, because the conditions under which humans can live without harmful technologies are being lost under collapse.