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Amorphous wrote

Reply to comment by ziq in Real socialism! by ziq

Only because in your mind being an anarchist is inextricably linked with devouring western propaganda and providing support for western countries against their enemies.

I'm an anarchist because I truly believe in making a better world, a communist world, one where every person is free to live in peace as they wish. Your ilk, you disgusting parasite who spends their time calling people fascists for doing their best to bring about the world you claim to want, will always side with the true fascists in the end. You have no interest in making a better world, nor in learning the history which lead us to where we are today. You care only about feeling like you're ideologically perfect, that in the end you were right, that you never budged an inch from your own enlightened position. You'll take that feeling of smug superiority with you to your unmarked mass grave under the new fascist state, surrounded by MLs, indistinguishable to fascists and identical in death.

Take a step back for a moment and think about how you treat even anarchists who do not share your rabid hatred of the enemies of the state you claim to oppose.

And then go fuck yourself.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

i don't want to get in the middle of the interpersonal stuff above, however i do want to address this:

Your ilk, you disgusting parasite who spends their time calling people fascists for doing their best to bring about the world you claim to want, will always side with the true fascists in the end.

Who are the "people...doing their best to bring about the world [anarchists] claim you want"? It seems like you are saying the current government of China, but I'm not really sure.

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Amorphous wrote

All our comrades. The anarchists, the MLs, the maoists, everyone who is willing to work together to bring about a communist world.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

i think this is a very broadly elisive and rather naive view of politics. anarchists and statist communists have wildly divergent goals and methods in many cases. Similarities in rhetoric or between certain subgroups or particular individuals do not prove a rule, frankly.

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Amorphous wrote

What is truly naive is the idea that we can build an effective communist movement by calling MLs fascists.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

What about Stalin, who signed a mutual non aggression pact with the Nazis, and proceeded to help them expand eastward for years and thus begin the second world war?

Or Stalin again, when he massacred strikers and protestors with military force in Hungary when people attempted to create an autonomous, non-colonized socialist movement/country?

Is merely calling yourself a ML or any label sufficient to earn our broad loyalty across significant ideological divides? Or is there a minimum standard of action/behavior which is needed to build that trust, rather than it being assumed and loyalty mandated, without consent?

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Amorphous wrote

What about Stalin, who signed a mutual non aggression pact with the Nazis, and proceeded to help them expand eastward for years and thus begin the second world war?

With all due respect, have you ever read a history book, or do you get all your knowledge of history from hyperbolic anarchist memes?

There are so many things wrong with just this one sentence that it's difficult to even attempt to tackle them.

  1. There's nothing wrong with signing a non-aggression pact with a terrifying expansionist dictatorship which would quite likely threaten your territory otherwise. Yeah I'd have preferred if Stalin personally rode into Germany on the back of a bear and cut Hitler down with a sword the moment he took power, too, but that's not how it works. Preparing for war takes time.

  2. He didn't "help them expand eastward," he specifically stopped them from expanding any further eastward than a specific line he managed to draw. Again, yeah, would've been nice if he could've stopped them completely, but that's just not realistic.

Stalin had attempted time and time again to enter some form of pact or alliance with Britain and France in order to deal with Nazi Germany, but they wanted no part of it. So when Nazi Germany came along like "hey, want to not fight for a bit" what reason would they possibly have for saying no?

Or Stalin again, when he massacred strikers and protestors with military force in Hungary when people attempted to create an autonomous, non-colonized socialist movement/country?

I am unfortunately less informed on that story than I'd like to be. This comment is interesting, though.

Or is there a minimum standard of action/behavior which is needed to build that trust

I don't see why you'd need to frame it that way. I trust people who want to create a communist world by default, they would need to do something specifically to lose that trust. We're very, very weak, especially compared to those we oppose. We can't afford to be so paranoid.

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Bezotcovschina wrote (edited )

Reading this page AND some sources referenced in it, I think Stalin was FUCKING HYPED when he was hinted on the possibility of SU joining Axis - laying claims on British colonies, Turkey. Then, while the chance of SU joining Axis gradually becomes thinner, Stalin gradually reduced his appetites in territory, but not giving up.

Like: "Boys, boys, let me in your cool expansionist club, I only want India, Afghanistan, Iran, Bosporus, Dardanelles, Finland, Bulgaria and other. What? No answer? What if I drop India? Just let me in! Still no answer? Well, maybe Afghanistan is too much? Boys, boys, let me hang with you. What? You let fucking Hungary and Romania in and not me? I'm no longer asking for Iran, boys! Wait, you allowed fucking Bulgaria to join you? B-but my claims... Well, I guess I can gulp it. Just let me in, boys!".

Fucking humiliating. Fucking meme material.

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kin wrote

entryism as f*ck, no me jodas:

providing support for western countries against their enemies

I dunno if this is eurasian propaganda or plain Tankie cliché

making a better world, a communist world

by your Party guidelines, I assume

you disgusting parasite

typical Tankie disqualification towards Anarchists

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ziq OP wrote

yeah you're a raging tankie doing entryism alright, you're not even good at it

I don't give a shit about western countries, if you're gonna smear me do it right

w/ziq_essays will give you plenty of ammo

btw I hope you choke on Putin's boot

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Amorphous wrote

Good lord you're fucking beyond help

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ziq OP wrote

I'm not a tankie I just support homophobic state capitalist tyrants because of dialectical materialism

brown fascists would kill both you and red fascists so you should be friends with red fascists even though they would kill you too

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Amorphous wrote

amazing how liberals actually think of things in these terms.

absolutely bizarre. i wouldn't have even called you a straight up liberal till you did the standard liberal thing of accusing anyone you dont like of being in bed with putin. i am no longer even upset at you, i am just puzzled that you think you are in any way opposed to liberalism.

genuinely, what the fuck?

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ziq OP wrote

In bed with putin? Lol. All you tanks fetishize alt-capitalists putin, assad and xi. I'm not calling you a Russian agent you disingenous dipshit. Let's stop pretending now, no one gets this salty over china being called capitalist unless they're a card carrying tank. Just own it and engage anarchists honestly without trying to pose as one of us. You clearly don't know shit about anarchy and aren't fooling anyone.

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Amorphous wrote

alright, lets cover all you've said for a second

  1. putin is one of the worst human beings alive on this planet. the world would be a slightly better place if he dropped dead today, though it's not like that would actually change anything on its own

  2. I never "got salty" over china being called capitalist or disputed that in any way whatsoever. If you can recall to 2 days ago (I know, tough work for you, do your best) I took issue with my comrades being called fascists

  3. I was introduced to general leftist thought after becoming a vegan and interacting with vegan anarchists. having not realized before that point that anarchism was a real thing that actual human people believed, I looked into it and read the conquest of bread. it resonated with me and made me look into other anarchist authors, and socialism and communism more generally. in this study I have developed a healthy respect for marxists of all varieties (keep in mind, of course, that kropotkin himself was influenced by marx, and despite anarchism and marxism having separate roots, the two have been intertwined for many, many years)

I remain an anarchist and remain devoted to bringing about a truly communist world. I hope that some day you, too, will set aside your smug liberal bullshit and become committed to actually making a better world instead of just sitting around bitterly calling people fascists because they didn't believe everything CNN or the BBC or whatever told them.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

I took issue with my comrades being called fascists

Who are your comrades? The government of China, CCP? Or am I misunderstanding?

If you are really saying the CCP are your comrades... Do you...know these people? I guess my question is, what do you mean with a statement like this?

Also, /u/ziq does a significant amount of organizing work, i think you are out of line and just plain incorrect in assuming that they do not and instead spend all their time criticizing authoritarian communists on the internet. This is one of many things they do with their time, but the little window I have had into their efforts they have done far more than most people I have interacted with in radical spaces over more than a decade of living and organizing with communists, anarchists, and other fellow travelers.

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Amorphous wrote

Also, I believed you about ziq when I initially read this comment. I thought, "You know, maybe I'm out of line. Maybe posting shenanigans bring out the worst in /u/ziq and they do good work IRL. I hope that's true!" Then I wrote my reply to this comment, and /u/ziq immediately threw a full-on tantrum, randomly insulting me, all-caps spamming me, and then rapid-fire posting no fewer than eight (probably will be closer to ten by the time this comment is actually posted) different anti-china memes.

I then scrolled back through their history to get a feel for how often they go on these ridiculous posting tantrums. There are pages and pages of posts in their history for every single day.

After reconsidering the facts, I must say I simply cannot believe your claim. There is no way /u/ziq has time to organize IRL.

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ziq OP wrote

how the fuck r u talking this much with that boot permanently lodged in your shitty lying tank mouth? goddamn

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Amorphous wrote (edited )

Who are your comrades? The government of China, CCP? Or am I misunderstanding?

You are misunderstanding, as I clarified in another reply to you. I'd like to take this moment, then, to point out another thing I noticed. You talk like a liberal. That's something I notice in anarchist online spaces and only in anarchist online spaces.

What I mean by that is that "CCP" is not a real thing. The party is the Communist Party of China, or CPC, and this is how they self-identify. The fact that you think of them as the CCP reveals that you only hear of them from western liberal media or, worse, from western liberal/fascist randoms who you hear talking about them. And that's what I mean when I say that you consider people "fascists" for not believing everything CNN or the BBC says. You (not necessarily you specifically, I don't know you, but some radlibs calling themselves anarchists on this site and other online anarchist spaces) identify people as fascist for supporting a group of people you don't even know how to speak about without proving your ignorance.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

I don't think of them as an acronym, I think of them as the Chinese Communist Party, which seemed pretty neutral and unloaded by being plainly descriptive. Any inference of malice or ignorance i think is misplaced, I read their own press releases in translated mandarin, read news articles from Chinese sources and include state-run media in my information diet about this government.

this is really just symbolic posturing, and i think it is less substantive than the rest of what you and others have to say about this issue.

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ziq OP wrote

god will you give it a fucking rest with the red fash entryism already, no one is fucking buying what you're selling

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Amorphous wrote

Can you fuck off? I'm trying to have a serious discussion here, something you are far too immature to manage. Butt out.

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ziq OP wrote

eat my shit you fucking bootlicker

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ziq OP wrote

CPP CPP CPP CPP CPP CPP CPP CPP CPP

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Amorphous wrote

lmao are you actually 12 years old

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ziq OP wrote

are you incapable of not making intelligence based attacks?

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