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Ampelio wrote

I mean, I won't, exactly, give a shit if cops die, but, we as leftist cannot loose sight of the greater picture. It's not about the police as individuals, rather, it's about the institutions of capitalism which they uphold.

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asg101 wrote

But seeing as the institutions are only upheld by the efforts of individuals, the fewer individuals that are upholding them, the weaker they become.

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Ampelio wrote

This is wrong. The instiutions are not held up by the efforts of individuals. The institutions are held up by a small oligarchic class of capitalists with infinite power and resources that shape and develop the minds of the masses; workers, from the cradle to the grave. These capitalists, themselves, are driven by materialistic forces which cause them to behave a certain way as much as any one else; profit. I am not saying that there is no individual agency what so ever, but, you are, again, missing the bigger picture here. There are social and economic/political factors for why people are they way they are && that is what we, as socialists, anarchists, communists, marxists, etc etc etc are seeking to change. By ballot or bullet, ultimately, is irrelevant.

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FellowTraveler wrote

While the system is definitely self-perpetuating there's certainly a case to be made for going after specific individuals as well. Think of it as an illness: yes you can go after the root of the illness to completely heal it but at the same time there's almost as much merit in treating and suppressing the symptoms as well. The bourgeoisie and their enforcers are the symptoms. When you suppress the symptoms it gives you more opportunity to effectively tackle and root out the underlying issues.

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Ampelio wrote

Eh, I don't really see the utility in your argument. I think attacking police is just good propganda, in some cases. In some cases it works against us, depends on who sees the riot porn. Attacking a specific cop, in and of itself, really doesn't do much though.

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FellowTraveler wrote (edited )

Attacking a single anyone doesn't do much in the grand scheme of things either way. But if we're talking about systematically dismantling the state's tools of oppression then unleashing a sustained and systematic terror against the cops is just as valid as any other activism, even if ultimately dead cops can be in principle replaced by new recruits. All I'm saying is it's a numbers game and as long as an org has the capability to engage in this kind of warfare (as opposed to just opportunistic and futile single outbursts like the former RAF) then even if on its own it won't bring about socialism (because ultimately socialism is about building, not destroying), it at least will open up the space for socialism-building, give us a breather, a fighting chance, if you will. But yeah, I don't believe in simple solutions either, it's going to be a holistic approach if we're ever to succeed - one leg propping up another.

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Ganggang OP wrote (edited )

Ultimately the rich aren’t even doing anything. It’s the poor that produces the wealth of the rich and if we’re unhappy, we should just stop. The unfortunate truth is the poor are the ones creating capitalism at the end of the day. The rich really don’t even do anything. Especially not it’s enforcement which they rely on poor pigs for

Cops are actively hurting us, as individuals and on an individual level. I want them to die because that’s one less person hurting me. Your moralizing dusty ass leftism is irrelevant to me, cops dying is directly in my material self interest. As well as my spiritual self interest because it makes me happy when they croak. And it makes me happy to say I want them dead, I’d like to scream it in their face

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Ampelio wrote

I never once made a moral supposition. I'm just making a material analysis of our current situation. "Old" Is not an argument against it. In and of itself killing a cop does nothing but make you feel like a revolutionary. It doesn't, actually, do anything to better our lives. It's ultra-leftism. Maybe you should pick up those dusty old tomes at least once? && I don't even think it's bad I just don't see it, ultimately, as much more than a tool or a tactic to be used to spread propaganda and even then that is becoming increasingly ineffective.

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