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celebratedrecluse OP wrote

Will's points about the statue dethronements is interesting. while i support destroying religious structures, the material effect of making a demand (especially rather than direct actions) to do something like that as part of a mass movement is contradictory to the self preservation of that movement to a significant extent. what do you all think?

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celebratedrecluse OP wrote

furthermore, mat's point that statue destructions are proceeding from superstructure towards material conditions, rather than occuring in the midst of changing material conditions and symbolizing those preexisting conditions, seems pretty accurate to me. that this conversation has become about moral debating over historical figures, rather than the material condtions around us now.

It is striking to me how the conversation was directed from:

  1. george floyd's death was unjust

  2. police brutality in response to demonstrations must be stopped.

  3. statues must be cancelled

what do you all think? Does the focus on statues and other monuments detract or enhance the ability of popular movements to make effective actions on this time?

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Vulpes wrote

Does anyone else find the Cum Town hosts unlistenable? They're not as bad as Brandon Wardell (that one is far and away the worst Chapo episode), but that's not saying much.

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hogposting wrote

Tearing down statues is fine, but overall it doesn't change anything significant. Even if you want to argue that a statue of Jefferson Davis or whoever is a slap in the face to every black person who walks by (and it is), removing it doesn't remove the white supremacist institutions that built it and kept it in place. You can give your car a fresh coat of paint and it won't go any faster.

The one great thing it does is provide a demonstration of the effectiveness of direct action.

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Heywood_Floyd wrote

What I liked about the toppling of the cheapo, mass manufactured "unknown confederate" statues (and they did cast them in large numbers up in Pittsburgh) is that the metal was so thin the statues would crumple when they hit the ground. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbD1e0d_eNo

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