Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

DeletedButArchived wrote (edited )

I'm vegan. Also, I don't know how that's relevant to your claim about how cows care what consumer choices humans make.

4

ziq wrote (edited )

cows don't like having their calves ripped from them and killed so perpetual infants humans can mechanically pump their nipples until there's more blood than milk coming out - what's so hard to understand here? is this one of those ideology things where people on the internet have said 'eating meat is ethical if you steal it' so many times that you can't wrap your head around it not being ethical, no ifs ands or buts?

what about stealing blood diamonds? you think the kids who were exploited to mine those diamonds give a shit if you paid for the end product or not?

4

DeletedButArchived wrote

I agree with your evidence but I disagree with it proving your thesis.

Your evidence: cattle are treated horribly by the industry

This is true

Your thesis: Cows care if people steal cheese or not

I believe this to be false and not proven correct by the evidence you gave.

Does have no understanding of theft, cheese, grocery stores, human consumer choices, and economic disecentivization. I'm sure they could have some conception of the concepts if they were allowed to view said concepts. I don't think a majority or even any cows really have a conception of these concepts. It's therefore impossible for them to have an opinion on things they have no idea exists. The same way I don't have opinions on things I don't know exists. It's physically impossible.

It's a pretty argument but your the one who brought up the idea that cows have an opinion on stealing cheese in the first place. Like I doubt there are really any cows who have seen cheese needless connected cheese being made of milk. Or grocery shopping for that matter.

6

throwaway wrote

Here we are, discussing what cows might think about people lifting cheese.

5

ziq wrote

all dairy consumption is stealing from cows whether you pay for it or not.

cows don't make milk to feed humans, they make it to feed their calves.

cows make milk to nourish their young, so yes they care when humans kill their young to siphon the milk into their cheese products.

2

[deleted] wrote

1

DeletedButArchived wrote

Maybe you should rethink your beliefs if you are spending your free time trying to stop people from stealing from factory farms and corporate grocery stores.

2

ziq wrote

idk who ur replying to or what they said but if you have a choice to steal rice and beans or steal milk and cheese and you choose milk and cheese, and tell yourself this is praxis, you're lying to yourself. you're a grown ass person, you don't need a cow to breastfeed you so you can survive

3

kin wrote

I erased my comments bc there's nothing here for me but being accused of being antishoplifting

3

ziq wrote

considering all these shoplifters are middle class settlers who likely make more money in a year than we could make in a decade, it's kinda hard not to be

−1

BorrowingBrov OP wrote

youre saying youre antishoplifting cause people who shoplift are middle class settlers? bro what. do you even read what people are posting here. a lot of us are broke as fuck and steal to save money because we're broke as fuck.

5

DeletedButArchived wrote (edited )

I dont think it's praxis. I think it's ridiculous that anarchists are spending their time boosting wallmarts profit margin by moralizing poor people.

I'm obviously somewhat sympathetic to consumer choices argument but I think there is pretty good reasons to view it as far less effective than most think. Also, far less certain to have the outcome vegans think it will. Once you get to the stealing level, the whole consumer choices logic eats it self. So I think stealing cheese is morally righteous cause or whatever, it's silly to see people mad that cheese has been stolen.

2

ziq wrote

again i don't know what they said, but if they said stealing cheese isn't ethical because all dairy consumption adds to the continued exploitation of cows and the full-sail destruction of the ecosystem to further expand the meat/dairy industry, then they're right. it doesn't boost some american corporation's profits to speak out against systemic rape and murder on the internet. like everyone on the settler left, your arguments are entrenched in exploitative narratives. shoplifters aren't sacred cows

1

kin wrote

You made all the points I wish I made in my deleted comments, sometimes I feel that the language barrier enters in my way bc if they tried to start a bad faith argument with an accusation like ”u should rethink your beliefs you think stealing cheese is bad meet" my point didn't reason with them clear enough

2

ziq wrote

it's all part of the continued colonialist subjugation of anarchy. i'm lucky i can use English as well as I can even tho it's not my first language, but i also struggle to articulate myself and usually have to edit my comments 10 times to get my point across. my essays have to be rewritten literally hundreds of times before they make any sense

3

ziq wrote

i think the problem is these people can't shift themselves to a frame of reality that doesn't revolve wholly around consumerism, so their "solution" to consumer culture is to find ways to make the products of consumerism "free" (socialism, co-ops, shoplifting), rather than to reach beyond consumer culture entirely and recognize that there's no such thing as free when the environmental and colonization costs are so high

and they also lean hard on moralizing ("poor people deserve to steal meat!") while at the same time accusing everyone else of moralizing for pointing out that these people don't need to steal meat to survive because they have every fucking food in the world available at their fingertips.

i mean they mention walmart, which is literally a giant shrine to every product imaginable. anyone with a walmart down the street isn't starving. it's insulting to people who actually live in food deserts.

3

DeletedButArchived wrote

i think the problem is these people can't shift themselves to a frame of reality that doesn't revolve wholly around consumerism, so their "solution" to consumer culture is to find ways to make the products of consumerism "free" (socialism, co-ops, shoplifting), rather than to reach beyond consumer culture entirely and recognize that there's no such thing as free when the environmental and colonization costs are so high

Hey, something we can agree on. Cool!

3

kin wrote

their "solution" to consumer culture is to find ways to make the products of consumerism "free"

Exactly my point, I don't care about the lifestyle they can carry on. Even more the people who need the food etc.

But just a tought, how many shoplifters here are willing to go dumpster diving or freecycling, etc?

2