Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Pash wrote

so you know that forceful defense isn't particularly statist

2

OdiousOutlaw wrote (edited )

Sure, until a community gets attacked and then we all start enforcing borders and shit because the fear of danger makes large groups of people form states.

All this because some people think a state won't be born under a sedentary community.

3

Pash wrote

All this because some people think a state won't be born under a sedentary community.

Are you saying that sedentism leads to statism, and that's bad, so we should be nomads?

3

OdiousOutlaw wrote

Nope. Very small bands of people can easily be sedentary without descending into Statism. Wouldn't lead to much environmental damage or pollution either.

Larger groups will inevitably deteriorate into authoritarian structures, typically as a response to outsiders, such as the hypothetical you and ziq are going on about; and soon you've got people designating "this" area as "theirs" and begin enforcing borders.

4

ziq OP wrote

when someone smugly proclaims they're gonna 'rescind your membership' in their society before they've even constructed the society because you don't fall in line with their ideological posturing, their ideology was an authoritarian structure all along and never needed to deteriorate into it

3

OdiousOutlaw wrote

when someone smugly proclaims they're gonna 'rescind your membership' in their society before they've even constructed the society because you don't fall in line with their ideological posturing, their ideology was an authoritarian structure all along and never needed to deteriorate into it

3

Pash wrote

When you claim you're gonna violently destroy other people's voluntarist work groups because you don't like them organising without you, you're the tyrant.

3

ziq OP wrote

if i destroy them it's because i understand the nature of authority and that letting the city continue to expand will eventually be a death sentence to me and anyone else that doesn't want to be consumed by their society

3

Pash wrote

before they've even constructed the society

You're thousands of years too late with that comment, lol

2

ziq OP wrote

you're right, ancom society is pretty much identical to every other industrial society that exists and has existed

2

Pash wrote

Do you think anprim societies practiced ostracism?

3

ziq OP wrote (edited )

are you under the impression i'm an anprim? i'm not.

I'll answer your question anyway since you don't seem to get how the power relations of civilization work: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/john-moore-a-primitivist-primer

Some basic power relations are present in primitive societies — and this is one reason why anarcho-primitivists do not seek to replicate these societies — but it is in civilization that power relations become pervasive and entrenched in practically all aspects of human life and human relations with the biosphere. Civilization — also referred to as the megamachine or Leviathan — becomes a huge machine which gains its own momentum and becomes beyond the control of even its supposed rulers. Powered by the routines of daily life which are defined and managed by internalized patterns of obedience, people become slaves to the machine, the system of civilization itself. Only widespread refusal of this system and its various forms of control, revolt against power itself, can abolish civilization, and pose a radical alternative. Ideologies such as Marxism, classical anarchism and feminism oppose aspects of civilization; only anarcho-primitivism opposes civilization, the context within which the various forms of oppression proliferate and become pervasive — and, indeed, possible.

tldl excluding someone from an all-encompassing global industrial society that's impossible to escape and everyone is forced to depend on for sustenance is not the same as telling someone to leave a nomadic tribe in an unspoiled, abundant ecosystem where food is free for the picking

anprims aren't creating vast deserts and then casting people out into them to starve, only civilization can do that

and in the anarchistic hunter gatherer cultures that still exist in the world today, people don't get exiled. rather, when someone is being oppressive and trying to rule people, everyone packs up their things at night and relocates to another settlement without them

eventually they get the hint and stop trying to rule people: https://iaf-fai.org/2020/11/02/indigenous-anarchic-hierarchy/

One culture we can look to too for an almost complete absence of hierarchy is the Hadza people of West Africa. The Hadza have a simple solution to those who feel they have the right to control others. They pack up camp and leave them behind. They do this until the person stops attempting to control them.

2

[deleted] wrote

3

ziq OP wrote

sorry, the ancom city council needs those lands for their cows

2

[deleted] wrote

3

existential1 wrote

Can you make an ancom city in SimCity then burn it down in Streets of Sim City?

3