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incendialhumano wrote

Rewilding, decolonizing anything while this state of things persists is reformism, minimalism.

Why aim for anything short of ending civilization on Earth forever? That's my prescription: everything we've done's got to go.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote (edited )

Well presumably you can't just turn wildness on. I suspect it's at the least a multi-generational process that needs to be practiced and learned. Meaning we would have to undertake it on the way to ending civilisation. Everything does have to go, but if we are not unmaking it in ourselves, then it is not going, so far as I can tell.

Please elaborate on what you mean if you disagree.

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incendialhumano wrote

Forget about "turn[ing] wildness on" (and your unappetizing verbiage). Human agency radically corrupts everything. What would benefit the planet is turning civilization off. Four generations or whatever is four generations longer than necessary for your agenda to be co-opted, diverted by people with more ability/agency than all of us combined.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

Of course it's desirable for civilisation to be ended immediately. I don't think that's possible. I don't think even the multi-generational version is realistic, but at least it seems possible in some sense.

How would you turn civilisation off?

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incendialhumano wrote

Civilization is nowhere near as stable as you and many other people in the anticiv milieu seem to imply. It's a house of cards, with many pillars and load-bearing facades already nearly defunct. Some of the hot air used for discussion would be better placed in actions. Enough of the right kind and it all blows over.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

with many pillars and load-bearing facades already nearly defunct

What do you mean - in particular, what kind of arguments do you have for civilisation as a house of cards?

actions. Enough of the right kind and it all blows over.

how much is enough?

Do you think of civilisation as just physical infrastructure? What about the ways in which we are civilised? If we aren't changing that, won't we just rebuild civilisations?

I'm genuinely interested in how you answer all these questions. Right now a lot of what you're saying doesn't have much content, so far as I can tell.

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