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jahnu wrote

So what now? White people should just stand to one side and do nothing?

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[deleted] 0 wrote (edited )

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jahnu wrote

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something. I will re-read and reconsider. Thank you.

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[deleted] wrote

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jahnu wrote

It is possible to care and try to be an ally while still being an ass. We all do it. I sometimes feel the same when I, white queer male, have had straight allies of colour tell me "I feel your pain" and proceed to ignore my actual needs and perceptions. I'd still rather they try, because even flawed allies are better than none.

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El_Sabate wrote

Perhaps "white" culture is so toxic at this point that any large group of white people has a high risk of being toxic.

I don't know what the fuck is wrong with those people, but you sound like a comrade I'd love to have in my affinity group.

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Elagabalia wrote (edited )

First of all, I'm sorry to hear all of this, and its obvious why you'd never want to associate with the left afterwards, and with that in mind, I wanted to ask this:

I don't always understand the point unless it's stated in absolutely crystal clear, usually concise terms, and I've re-read this a few times and changed my mind on what the main take-away I should remember as a white person is; does anyone in this thread feel like commenting to affirm what I think I ought to remember?

It's clear that this has caused OP much anguish, and rightly so for many obvious reasons I do understand in the post, so I want to at least do the least I can in making sure I understand and remember what is meant here.

It sounds like the main things to avoid, as a white person are: (and bear with me that some I will list are very very obviously wrong, I'm not listing them because they're new ideas to me, just for my own clarity)

-- never even get close to oneupsmanship or recentering the dialogue on ourselves should the issue of victimhood or oppression come up in conversation

-- listen to, try to understand, and then act on stories/ideas from POC without personally modifying/altering/overwhelming the narrative with our own interpretation or ideas

-- recognize that certain direct action (by example punching Nazis) is very transparently not a realistic option for POCs; and try not to claim glory / be prideful / anything of that note about it, remembering that it's a privilege we uniquely have

-- if POCs give you well informed / expert advice; listen to it and don't ignore it then complain about resulting issues

-- "You said something shitty about your life, they cried, and it became their story. You shared something about other POC in your hood getting hurt by cops, they cried, and it became their issue. You complained about racism shit in the circle, they wept, and your outcry is invalidated. You said you came from the hood and still struggling in there, they cried about where they came from, it became their concern."

(Here's the part I'm sort of having trouble properly digesting. Is the criticism that your dialogues and discussions were generally overwhelmed by whatever the white opinion or train of thought was at the time? Or is it more that after complaining about racism; they cried and acted sad or hurt; making your legitimate critiques not really cause change?

Apologies if this is very obvious; it does seem as much for everyone else here, I just have 10-hours-of-homework-brain and I wanted to understand this now that I have a minute.)

Everything else, if not listed, was so transparently racist and shitty I didn't think needed (personal) listing for clarity; the "you are their pet", "never valued you once as an actual friend", and the general fact that they seemed to only want to use you, and in another comment that they only every seemed to ask for your advice on POC related issues.

And now by the end of my post I have a huge list that almost certainly is basically asking for more labor from you; so I feel bad again. Hoping someone else lurking in the thread sees this, as it feels wrong to ask for any more at this point.

Edited for formatting

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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Elagabalia wrote

Hey first of all sorry for asking for more information and then disappearing for almost literally forever -- personal life took ahold, and yatta yatta yatta.

Thanks for responding, and that context definitely makes everything click for me now. I'm happy to hear nothing you mention in the 2nd post is anything I'd ever passively fall into (I think and hope), but it's disheartening to hear of such poor comrades (if one can even call them that).

Here's hoping you find the quality of leftist group you deserve locally and otherwise, and fuck the white fash even when they pose as leftists.

o7

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