Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

14

selver wrote

Can't believe how terrible that whole thread is.

My favorite response:

This is why anarchists will never get anything done. They constantly alienate potential allies by talking mad shit

9

JayGrym wrote

I thought it was communists that flipped on anarchists, resulting in many anarchists being imprisoned or killed?

8

hasbrochem wrote

ussr, china, cuba, ..., pick a country/region and MLs/MLMs use anarchists until they decide they're not useful anymore and then they betray and murder them, but hey, left unity! why won't anarchists just get behind it? so confusing

2

Melias wrote

Don't know what you're talking about, it was clearly Makhno that instigated that in-fighting /s

7

BlackFlagged wrote (edited )

I swear they're as bad as any fascist I've ever had words with, the way they'll gaslight and lie and slander to paint Marx as a saint reminds me of fascists that say Hitler never hurt anyone and the Holocaust was a hoax. If they'll work this hard just to pretend Marx wasn't racist, it's no wonder they'll defend every communist dictator that committed atrocities.

They repeatedly claimed it was a mistranslation when it's demonstrably not: https://archive.fo/h5mw6

They claim the Holodomor was a "nazi hoax": https://archive.fo/cVVXG

Called me a Terf, for calling one of them a brocialist after they called me "cunt":

https://old.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/ax6lhy/marx_was_a_repulsive_white_supremacist_or_why/ehunrin/?context=3

They edited their comment to remove "cunt" and then claimed they never said it. Then pmed me to call me a gaslighter: https://coinsh.red/p/tankieshit.png

1

Melias wrote

ML is just the term they use instead of nazbol as far as I'm concerned 🤷

8

bloodrose wrote

What an absolute shit-stain. Especially telling the language they used in their fake message. Shit-stain is a red pill Nazi near as I can tell. Sorry they called you a monkey. They suck!

7

BlackFlagged wrote

I'm flabbergasted by how fucking racist white communists are.

6

Notech wrote

That sub is a now crossroad of red fascists, socdems and champagne white manarchists.

5

BlackFlagged wrote

It's like all the good anarchists went full anticiv and ditched their computers or something.

5

BlackFlagged wrote

After they got bored with attacking me they went and banned me from all the communist subs and I don't even post on any of them.

4

Notech wrote

lol I trolled the fuck out of that tankie currylambchop who claimed that n-word wasnt racist. I think they aren't replying anymore.

4

Notech wrote

Now currylambchop is claiming that they have ASD therefore it justifiable for them to say n-word

4

trashcan wrote

And yet here you are flaunting an anti-idol around as something to specifically go against. How hypocritical is that

That reminds me of the time a dude told me anarchy is hierarchical because anarchists value anarchy over hierarchy.

3

hasbrochem wrote

I just went back and looked at it again. It's a fucking cult. this is what kills me about marxists in particular, but it's not unique to them either, is that they literally do all of the same things religious cults do. all you have to do is change marx/engel/che in these conversations for joseph smith/brigham young and this is the exact same conversation, verbatim, someone would have debating with a mormon about their history, leaders, and sacred books.

  • they were men of their time

  • you can't expect them to be perfect

  • you're misrepresenting what he said

  • I can't trust anything not from an "official" source

  • sure they did bad things but that doesn't make their ideology bad

  • gaslighting

  • we don't really believe that

and on and on. it's a fucking cult. like I said, I've had these exact conversations but with people who believe mormonism is real (I'm an ex-member of that cult).

3

celebratedrecluse wrote (edited )

The thing is that Marx and these other DWM don't matter, except as narrative fixtures in our heads.

See, if we had real revolutionary movements & tendencies in our societies, we wouldn't argue about fucking Marx, a theorist from the 19th century ago. We wouldn't even argue about Mao or Che or Makhno, long-dead revolutionary generals who at least made a material mark in the world, at least not much.

No, we would be arguing about people alive and exerting agency fucking now. Maybe even ourselves, and what we are doing. Right?? Everything else would be secondary. But we don't have that, in the US the revolutionary leaders were repeatedly assassinated for generations, and the revolutionary movements incarcerated or demobilized, so instead the tankies fetishize Marx, social anarchists Bookchin, individualist anarchists Stirner, etc. We lock ourselves in ivory towers, pretending we are radical for the flags we wave out its windows. Its the academification of public life, its de-politicization, one avenue for commodification.

This is not to say that yall dont talk about important stuff; you do, that's why I'm here with ya. But today, here we all are, tankies and anarchists in an inward-facing united front, arguing about Marx on the internet, because there is nothing substantial or compelling happening in our contemporary public life except the progressively deteriorating farce of normalcy.

Meanwhile, there were 6 people confirmed to be killed by police in the United States alone last week.

So there's not a shortage of things to talk about, insofar as radicalizing people against racism now. Is trolling about Marx mutually exclusive to this? Not necessarily, but rn we do have limited resources and time and energy to spend on our social discourse, so I think it's helpful to have a conversation between anti-authoritarians about how we autonomously use our own supplies of those limited resources, and attempt to work in concert with one another in a mutual and consensual way where these matters are concerned.

So here's my take. The tankies and libs express this aforementioned tendency toward pointless discourse the worst, but a lot of anarchists are fools to think that "winning" this online argument is worthwhile. Here's the thing: the tankies are just going to double down on this stuff. They'll be fucked up to anarchists and say terrible things about race to justify it, and in fact by bringing this up the only thing that will be achieved is to push them even further towards reactionary tendencies like racism & sexism.

To be fair, this would theoretically marginalize them, but tankies are already so marginal in the field of public life (people think social democrats are communists, thats how bad it is) that this is essentially impossible. So I would argue nothing politically positive is achieved by expending effort in this, unless you just like trolling lol, which is also fine but isn't really political activity in the way I would perceive it.

If we are going to yell at each other over the internet, lets at least talk about what matters rn. I'm inclined to just let the tankies mire themselves in their own absurd irrelevance, and hopefully every once in awhile they'll attack our mutual enemies, but that's my two cents. It's hard for stalinists and their ilk to claim anarchists are ineffective when anarchist projects are flourishing and tankies are floundering, so that's what I think is more worthwhile for our propaganda, and social discourse to focus on.

Some might compare this dismissal of tankies to a similar attitude towards incipient fascism, which is rising internationally now. However, I don't this comparison is fully accurate. While fascism is politically potent in the West, I really don't think the Trots et. al. have nearly the same structural factors in their favor as fascist movements out here, so I don't see them as an actual threat of any kind rn. That could change though, certainly could.

4

Notech wrote

Trots have a history of stabbing anarchist in the back, prominently the Free Territory, where Trotsky and his goons snuffed the movement, and the short-lived Saigon Commune where Trots collaborated with tankies like Ho Chi Minh to purge anarchists or snitched them to French colonists. Also, they are the pain in the ass to organize with.

3

celebratedrecluse wrote

They certainly have, and they certainly are, which is why I think it is unhelpful to engage with them when they are so marginal rn. But i can see why others would disagree with my perspective, too

2

Melias wrote

Obviously they're non-canon letters /s