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Blurp2 wrote

Well, except that when you focus on Juneteenth, you reinforce the notion that the problem is the government, and it's ancient, and largely handled by now. By focusing on a solved problem, you turn attention away from the current problem. The current problem isn't the government and what happened in 1865; the current problem is the people and what's happening now. George Floyd didn't die back in 1865, and the problem we face didn't start to go away in 1865, and I'm sure no one here expects that Mr. Floyd was the last. There will be more. There probably already have been and we just haven't noticed. That's the problem, and it has nothing - zero - zip - to do with Juneteenth.

The problem hasn't STARTED to go away yet. It has not yet BEGUN to be reduced. And at this rate, it never will.

Nobody but me is saying that, but that's the only way we're ever going to make progress. Oh well, I've said it all before. Never mind.

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__0 wrote

I agree with the sentiment, but also want to say that things are undeniably better than 1865. But also that yes america has a huge problem with structural, and deeply engrained cultural racism and racial violence, and by that I am also including not just physical violence, but state violence, economic violence, cultural violence etc.

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Blurp2 wrote

I'm sorry, I know you mean well, but we need to stop saying things are better now. Every time you say things are better now you encourage people to settle for what they've got, to ignore the substandard education so many kids are getting, the outrageously long prison terms so many people are getting - always after pleading down from the certainty of getting much worse, if they insist on trial! Their reward, for saving the state all that money, is a sentence only four times as serious as what they'd get in a civilized country!

And for what, for this drug war that is funding revolutions in South and Central America. No, I'm not saying we need to make drugs legal. I can't go that far. But let's stop penalizing so called criminals as though they were evil. They're no more evil than the rest of us. Let's stop making war on our own people.

But focusing on the progress we've made makes it completely impossible to make more. It communicates - the "second message" is - that you've settled for what you've got and you're OK with stopping here. So called white people say, "Just leave us our personal racism - we'll try our LEVEL BEST to treat one another equal, honest we will!" - in their hearts this is what they say - and they mean it. And that's how political progress has been made to this point, by making explicit, out loud promises that we weren't going to demand that personal racism end. And so we are at fault too. We were wrong. We do need personal racism to end. Personal racism is the problem.

Because they CAN'T treat so called black people equal. It can't be done. When you think of yourself as white you have, right then and there, accepted the low status and consequent worthlessness of so called blacks. We need to stop people thinking of themselves as white. We need to tell so called white people what the problem is and how to fix it. Because if we don't, why would they? They won't, and we'll be stuck HERE. Please. Let's not get stuck here.

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__0 wrote

You make some good points, but I still feel like it is better to be "free" and impoverished and marginalized than it is to be enslaved in 1865.

1865 wasn't really that long ago, but also 1965 wasn't that long ago either...

I don't think acknowledging the historical atrocities of a state that is truly at war with the people within it, stops anyone from seeing what injustice is currently happening.

The fact is that for a long time many living in the states were explicitly not seen as people. The consequences of this still live on in america's culture.

There are so many justifications that america has made for its slavery historically, but I want to also point out that slavery still exists in the states in prisons, and also the fact that globalization has moved so much of production into sweatshops around the world that have working conditions that are illegal and incredibly unethical ...

But yes the conditions globally are terrible, and in the us they suck too, and everything is systematically fucked.

These conditions are held In place by state and industry. The reason these systems are so immovable is that they force so many participants to be complicit... Its truly a hostage situation.

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Blurp2 wrote

I'm obsessed. It's an illness. Sorry. But.

I know we don't have race riots any more. But because George Floyd died, that is not progress.

I know we don't hang grandma from trees any more. But because George Floyd died, that is not progress.

I know we elected a black president, and integrated the schools very slightly, and so called black people and so called white people all are careful to wear their happy happy faces with one another when in public (and they're never in private). But because George Floyd died, that is not progress.

The process that killed George Floyd renews itself from day to day, from moment to moment. It is a completely modern, completely now process. It has absolutely nothing to do with history. It can be absolutely guaranteed to kill more people in the future, although possibly not today or tomorrow. If we do nothing, we give it permission to continue. What should we do? What can stop this process?

Only the elimination of whiteness as defined in and reflected by that marriage barrier. If we eliminate whiteness as non-so-called-black minorities define it, of course, you'll just set up a new whiteness as the non-so-called-black minorities take over the same marriage barrier the so called whites abandoned. That marriage barrier is the problem.

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