Recent comments in /f/Vegan

roanoke9 wrote

Alot of plants are perennial or aggressive self seeders that most people with a home garden just plant and pull, buying new seeds or worse starter plants every year. People who grow things are rare and even among those, saving seeds is rarer still. In cities anyway. I have a city lot nearly filled with food and medicine plants about 150 species not counting varieties. Is there a gardening/farming sub?

4

moonlune wrote

It's so easy! It feels like you're cheating! Drop a seed, muck around a little for a few months, pick your food. The amount of food you get compared to the amount of energy invested and land used is both surprisingly big and surprisingly small.

Granted I've only grown a vegetable patch worth for fun and could not be dependent on it but I got to eat my own berries instead of buying them.

5

asterism wrote

If you are ever in the mood to make more posts about plants (like this one) I will read them.

I am incredibly out of touch with the processes that go into growing food and its probab:y just a pipe dream but I would like to learn to garden/farm one of these days so i find info like this super valuable.

7

ziq OP wrote

If I run into a potato plant and then remember later on to go take surplus potatoes then it's just stealing. But if I'm part of the ecosystem and routinely taking and the potatoes growth is largely controlled by me for years and years. Does that constitute a hierarchy?

None of it's a hierarchy because the way ecology works, everything exists to help everything around it prosper, in order to also help itself prosper.

A plant makes leaves that are eaten by e.g. bugs that poop on the soil, feeding the plant and allowing it to make more leaves to feed more bugs to harvest more poop to grow more leaves, so it can eventually make seed and reproduce.

The plant doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's part of a circular ecosystem. The plant is using other species to aid its own survival, just as those species use the plant to survive.

As long as you're giving back to the ecosystem you're taking from (like by shitting on the soil or spreading compost or planting nitrogen fixers or whatever) in a way that's enough to maintain balance, you're doing your part.

It's when we disconnect from the ecosystem, like with industrial meat production, or industrial grain production, when we create domination over the land and ensure the ecosystem will eventually be starved to death.

Monocrop deserts (corn, wheat, etc) are fucked up because they've displaced 10000s of diverse species that were growing in harmony with each other in order to grow 1 engineered crop that only benefits 1 engineered species (humans).

11

lettuceLeafer wrote

Yeah a lot of arguments just boil down to people just being extremely out of touch.

I think the fairly likely counter argument would be,

well you are using your position to use systemic force on plants. Which is a potential hierarchy

For one I don't think taking leaves of a plant is similar to cutting someone's arm off. Plants routinely kill off leaves to benefit themself. While I would never cut off my arm to reduce my calorie needs. Plus things like apples drop off one their own. So for one I have eaten plenty of apples I just picked off the ground. Plus if the time is right they often just fall off when you touch them.

For starches, letting the plant die then taking the roots is not that uncommon. Plus it justmakes sense to leave the smaller potatoes. But in that case would there be a hierarchy over the potatoes? If the potato would routinely put in lots of effort stroring calories for you to take the surplus over and over again. Building a similar dynamic to feudalism where the peasant grows food and the strongest person in the territory lords come take a bunch of stuff. One time is force, but routinely becomes a system of governance.

If I run into a potato plant and then remember later on to go take surplus potatoes then it's just stealing. But if I'm part of the ecosystem and routinely taking and the potatoes growth is largely controlled by me for years and years. Does that constitute a hierarchy?

I would say this is getting pretty grey area. But relative to the modern lifestyle this level of oppression is extremely minimal. So I don't think it's a interesting question. Not have I lived enough in that way to make an informed opinion.

Yeah anarqxista has plenty of bad takes other than this too. It's extremely cringe to read a good essay and then read about how their anarchist goals are to eat meat and go to the orchestra lol.

Tldr: yeah I agree with you

7

kinshavo wrote

Well, what kind of anarchy is that?

Incomplete Anarchy, don't go hard on ourselves, I still would eat fungal beings for nutrition and for amusement.

The whole argument comparing plant life and animal life is silly if we don't stablish some amoral grounds. Even fungal organisms demonstrate a kind of intelligence beyond our comprehension.

And just to be iconoclast, what about bacterial life that form colonies¿ Should we just kill our immune system to avoid harming those?

5

asterism wrote

The worst I ever got on a video game was after playing Assassins Creed for a very long time I went outside and I started staring at buildings envisioning the best way to climb up them.

Another time after playing skyrim with mods that made everything ultra hard I saw a shadow of a bird passing over me and for a split second I freaked out that there was a dragon coming and I had to try really hard to resist the urge to run and hide.

Still have never pretended to kill anyone though.

3