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[deleted] wrote

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nbdy wrote

Not everyone is vegan for the health benefits

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[deleted] wrote

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happy wrote

Tell me if im wrong but isn't the supply chain so long and far removed the change in human exploration is negoigable vs? Also I don't believe voting with your wallet against legal human exploration is going to solve it.

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edmund_the_destroyer wrote (edited )

Maybe BrowseDuringClass1917 is referring to the fact that most fast food employees get treated like shit?

In that respect voting with your wallet might not hurt Taco Bell but it might help the locally owned restaurant. I visit a local food truck and a local coffee shop once a week each, and most of the time they are each staffed only by the owner. So I'm reasonably sure nobody local is getting abused by the transaction. ;)

(Edit: That said, patronizing local restaurant is only practical if you can afford the difference. I can get a pretty decent amount of food for $3 at McDonalds or Taco Bell. $3 doesn't buy anything at the food truck or the coffee shop.)

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existential1 wrote

This. Your local Taco Bell/BK/McDonalds/Subway are franchised businesses. So there's some local business person paying shit wages to staff and treating them like shit by-the-book they were given in their franchise owning class.

Juxtapose that with the employee-owned taco truck or other local business, it's an easy decision to me. (Assuming where you live has options)

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betterletter OP wrote

i live in a yuppie town, a food truck meal will run you $10-15 for one

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existential1 wrote

Interesting... I would differentiate thought between "food truck" meaning expensive millenial-branded food and "taco trucks" that serve $1-$1.50 tacos and are meant for working class people.

Where I live in the PNW, food trucks are found usually at events and do "rotations" around places, while the "taco trucks" are in the same spot every day. The one nearest my house is parked (probably illegally) in the corner of a gas station. It's regularly visited by day-labor folks and people on the way home from work. If you live in a yuppie spot, look for one nearest wherever day labor can be found. Lowes/Home Depot is a good spot to check.

I've even eaten at taco trucks in Salt Lake City suburbs...I do believe they are ubiquitous anywhere the population is above 20k or so (in the US).

Fuck those chicken & waffle food trucks though...

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betterletter OP wrote

chicken and waffles are literally all we have. one plate is $12. tried it once pre-vegan... it was a cold and terrible waste

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Mango wrote

Food truck is for rich white yuppies. Yeah I wasn't born in wealth like a lot of people so I'll stick with Taco Bell and Subway, thanks.

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existential1 wrote

Check my above comment about "food truck" vs "taco truck". Taco trucks are cheaper than taco bell and subway where I've lived in the US....could save you some money and be tastier.

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Mango wrote

Nah, if any taco truck still exists in this town, they are already being gentrified. Fucking white hipsters took $4 vegan burrito from the hood, and gentrify it into $15 salmon burrito. The worst part is now every restaurants start doing the same shit, upping their prices. Veggie burritos now cost $7 at least. I'm from the shanty area of the town, and decades ago we didn't even have a salon here. Now 3 fucking hipster haircut popped up selling their services for $20. Rent prices immediately jumped 30%.

Taco Bell is still the cheapest and the food of the hood. I'm a hood rat so I don't have the privilege to eat the same type of food for extra prices.

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Mango wrote

No ethical consumption. If you believed that a restaurant waitress or a cook get treated better than a Taco Bell worker, you are dead wrong. I work in food production, and it isn't better than a McDonald slave kitchen.

That said, patronizing local restaurant is only practical if you can afford the difference.

That's funny, because restaurant workers, particularly cooks (I was one) get treated worse than any job you listed. We worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. No sick leaves. No benefit. No holidays. No paid break. That was in 2010, and I got paid $7/hr.

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edmund_the_destroyer wrote

At the places I mentioned, when I am there literally no one but the owner is working. They have other stuff on weekends and they might treat those people terrible, I don't know. But when I patronize the business, the owner takes my order, makes the drinks, and cooks the food.

I believe you that you got treated terribly.

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selver wrote

You can't meaningfully avoid human exploitation when it comes to food, not for cheap at least.

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Mango wrote

Veganism isn't about health. It's not a lifestyle.

With vegan stuff on their new menu, Taco Bell will be dirt cheap comparing to other vegan restaurants. Nothing beats the good old guacamole and onion, with hard shell taco for $3.00. Before this change, you can already make your own vegan options for very cheap.

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betterletter OP wrote

nah man, get the spicy potato soft shell fresco style... $1 apiece, tomatoes, lettuce, and potatoes, add some fire sauce

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existential1 wrote

Veganism isn't about health. It's not a lifestyle.

I beg to differ...but I guess I'm not sure how narrow your definition/concept is of the terms health and lifestyle.

At a minimum to me, health is about mind/body/spirit(some folks don't believe in spirit and that's ok). If for no additional reasons, people seem to go vegan to me for mind/mental health reasons. Mostly because (for Western non-born/raised vegans) they have physical reactions (in their body) to the idea or knowledge (i.e. mind) of what goes on with non-vegan actions in agriculture. To me, that's a direct correlation of mind/body health concerns. I would love to be convinced otherwise if you have a better understanding that could inform me.

"Lifestyle" in anarchist circles based on my unenlightened amount of reading seems to stem from Bookchin (who consensus seems to be out on whether he was even an anarchist himself) critiques, but as a term, I feel as though the "lifestyle" critique is really manufactured. If a lifestyle is just the way a person chooses to live, then everyone has one...and everyone has one that changes over time based on the information and situation they have/are presented with at a given moment in time. If the feeling is that a lifestyle is just something that is bought and sold like a commodity, then what makes it special? Everything else is too.

Honestly I'm more curious about what your "it's not a lifestyle" comment is about. Not facetiously curious either, I'm interested to learn what you mean. I don't see how it isn't. I don't see how any way that people choose to live their lives isn't a lifestyle choice. But, I suspect you have a very particular definition of "lifestyle".

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Mango wrote

Health vegans don't stay vegan because they got into the culture for diet. Veganism is never about eating healthy, but about animal welfare. The problem with health-vegans didn't stay in veganism for long, because they restrict themselves to plain diets that either make them bored of the food, and/or further affect their health. Not all plant-based foods are de facto healthy. Nuts, avocado and squashes for example, have ultra high calories, which I'm additive to and my weight have been going all over the places. But they are so delicious, and any health-vegan who restricted themselves to raw hipster salad doesn't know how to enjoy the food.

So in short, veganism is about being a monk because we're against animal suffering, while lifestylist vegans in it for healthy dietary, which never consistent and will be back to meat diet in short time.

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existential1 wrote

Ah, so I think I see the difference.

To me, "animal welfare" vegans are still "lifestyle vegans" to me. Because my understanding of lifestyle is what you do, not why you do what you do. That, with the understanding that what you do can and will change based on the information you have that acts as the pretext for your actions. For example, I would consider the vegan lifestyle to be one in which you abstain from the use/consumption of animal-based products and anyone who adheres to such is living a vegan "lifestyle", whether or not they consider themselves a vegan or their reasons are nominally for health or animal welfare.

But to you, it seems "lifestyle" is more predicated on the "why" than the "what".

As for the high calories stuff, I'm no doctor, but I was a high-level athlete for awhile who was prescribed a diet and picked up some dietary knowledge by proxy...calories in and of themselves are not problems or unhealthy. It's about the balance of calories along with all the other nutrients juxtaposed against ones physical exertion. All that is to say, nuts, avocados, and squash are not necessarily unhealthy and are probably very often (especially the nuts and avocados) going to be in hipster salads.

Also, the association of avocados to wealth is only true in places where they are imported. Avocados are poor people's food in a lot of countries. There's a saying where I lived for awhile in Guatemala that goes something like, "4 tortillas, an avocado, and coffee is the best meal". And that's what people who were very poor ate quite often.

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neverinNJ wrote

I wonder how the Grub Hub /Taco Bell relationship is doing. They are available for delivery less hours and seem to take longer than other places.

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